Bernie's OHV Hudson 6 Prototype
Does anyone know whatever became of Bernie Siegfried's OHV 6 that he got when he left Hudson. I think he put it in a Ford truck for some time and then ???? It would be great to see it in the Hudson museum if it still exists. Anyone know any details, like HP, torque, displacement, etc. Just curious if it was based on the Hornet 308?
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At the H-E-T booth at Hershey, maybe 5-6 years ago, I spoke to Bob Terry of Tennessee, who had known Bernie. If my notes from our conversation are correct, Mr. Terry (then and perhaps still an H-E-T member) at that time owned a 327 c.i.d. engine prototype which once belonging to Bernie (and which was once owned by Hudson). It was made for Hudson by the LeRoy Engine Company which modified it from their standard engine. (I don't know if this was a marine, truck or farm engine.) But the 327 is a V8 not a six. It was one of two that Hudson ordered, for possible inclusion in the 1955 models (this would probably have been before the Nash merger). According to Mr. Terry, Bernie had said that the engine worked out well. However, LeRoy was a small company and didn't have the production capacity to supply even Hudson's relatively small needs, so the deal fell through.0
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From what I've been able to dig up - and this may not be entirely accurate since it came from about 3rd or 4th hand, the Ford 300 cid six truck engine was Bernies. It was based on the Hudson 308.
However, all that said and done, Wickapedia has this to say:
"A big 300 CID (4.9 L) six was added for the F-series in 1965 and were essentially a 240 CID (3.9 L) with a longer stroke (the two are nearly interchangeable aside from a few parts). It produced 170 hp (127 kW). The 300 became the base F-series engine in 1978 at 114 hp (85 kW) (hp number changes due to Ford switching to Net power ratings in 1971.) Power outputs were increased to roughly 122 hp (91 kW) during the early 1980s before fuel injection was introduced. This became the primary engine of the line, eclipsing the 240. Unlike the Falcon engine, it featured a separate intake manifold which could be easily replaced with aftermarket manifolds offering the promise of even more power, through the installation of larger carburetors."
The 300 is still available - there seem to be, running a google search, a number of places still selling it.
So the story of Bernies engine may be myth, it may be fact. I'm sure somebody will come up with the answer.
Nothing historical, other than the Wickapedia entry, seems to be available on-line.
Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
HudsonTech
Memphis, TN0 -
In the book Fun at Work, Hudson Style, the author, Harry Kraus, speaks regarding Bernie Seigfried as follows:
He was able to visit some areas that were considered out of bounds at Hudson. In some of the "warehouse type" buildings, he found many engines with no information available. Some were V-8s and even V-12s of unusual construction and many were modified six-cylinder engines that at one time had Hudson blocks.0 -
I attended several of Bernie's meets years ago. On more than one occasion I heard him talk of OHV Hudson 8 test engines that featured full-pressure lubrication. He told about being ordered to destroy the engines (unsure of how many they made), but that he decided to try to sneak one of them out of the factory. Well, he was caught in the act, and that engine was destroyed as well. I wish he had gotten it home!0
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I remember reading that somewhere.0
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I posted this over at the Street Rod section but will repost here for those that did not see it concerning trying to save an experimental 8 crank. Bernie obviously was quite a character and his tenacity for trying to save some really cool stuff was unparalleled.
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Hmm, so Mr. Siegfried claims that the 7X was standard in the 54 Hornets.
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Don't think he claimed that I think thats what the article writer thought he heard. Bernie probably said the 7X relief was standard in the 54 block. Also I see a lot of quotes from Bernie after his stroke some are misremembered but we know what he meant.0
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hudsontech wrote:From what I've been able to dig up - and this may not be entirely accurate since it came from about 3rd or 4th hand, the Ford 300 cid six truck engine was Bernie's. It was based on the Hudson 308.
I remember tales that Bernie managed to salvage a OHV 308 when the office was shut down which he later shopped around to the other manufacturers and was picked up by ford and evolved into the 300.
Jon B wrote:It was made for Hudson by the LeRoy Engine Company which modified it from their standard engine. (I don't know if this was a marine, truck or farm engine.) But the 327 is a V8 not a six. It was one of two that Hudson ordered, for possible inclusion in the 1955 models (this would probably have been before the Nash merger). According to Mr. Terry, Bernie had said that the engine worked out well. However, LeRoy was a small company and didn't have the production capacity to supply even Hudson's relatively small needs, so the deal fell through.
I also remember reading of a engine manufacturer that Hudson was working with to put a V8 in the (i think) 53's. The small manufacturer went under before it could happen. perhaps that is the Leroy engine Jon mentions. I don't rememer displacement or valve info just that Hudson did have a V-8 on the board prior to the merger.
Also wasn't the X-161's origonal engine alledgedly an OHV 308?0 -
50C8DAN wrote:I posted this over at the Street Rod section but will repost here for those that did not see it concerning trying to save an experimental 8 crank. Bernie obviously was quite a character and his tenacity for trying to save some really cool stuff was unparalleled.
What is contained in these articles is pretty much what I remember Bernie saying about the OHV 8. I recall his telling about getting caught in the act when the engine or crank passed a window as it was being lowered from an upper story. These old reminiscenses certainly invoke a lot of "What ifs...?" in our minds.0 -
A few years ago I purchased some of Frank Springs personal items. In the box was a Hudson envelope titled, "engine designs" The envelope contains blue prints of engines. They were dated around 1942 and 1943. And yes there is are prints of a couple of overhead valve engines. These prints have the Hudson Motor car company name on them. Now if they built to the prints, I have no idea, but Spring felt them important enough to save.0
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No evidence of and overhead valve in the Hornet Italia. In fact decesed Italia owner John Contus told me in a telephone conversation in 1997 that he was in Italy when his Italia was being built, and that the standard twin H car was there then. So I think OHV in the Hornet Italia is indeed a story.0
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Frank,are you now the owner of the Jet Convert Serial no.3D3X11 ?
If so you may want 2-pictures that i have and when No Rust was on the body. One is in the NORTH TEXAS QUARTERLY Sept 1975 and the other in March 1876. The owner then was HARRY MILLES of NANKIN MICH.
I do not know how to post the pics. if you email me i can email them to you. Thanks Rudy hetrbennett37@sbcglobal.net Please drop the het0 -
The story about the guy trying to filch the crankshaft reminds me of a similar situation with Cockshutt tractors. These were built in Canada and highly regarded. In 1962, they were working on a 100 HP prototype (the model 580), with 354 Perkins diesel engine, planetary differential and several other innovative features (their largest model at the time was about 65 HP). The company was acquired by White Motor Co. in a hostile takeover, and soon after, word came down to the shop to "cut up the 580's". There were 3 prototypes, and one of them was already a running tractor. It "ran" right out the back door and off the grounds! Everybody at the plant was upset about the takeover anyhow, so when inquiries were made, no one had seen a thing. The tractor stayed "underground" for about 20 years (long after the Statute of Limitations had run), but now makes the rounds of the shows.0
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You're right about the ownership- but after 20 years, I imagine the company realized that the bad PR of taking it back far outweighed any advantage of asserting ownership (what would they do with it?). Present owner of Oliver, Minneapolis Moline, Cockshutt, White Farm Equipment and Massey Ferguson is now a mega-corp called AGCO, and they are trying to be nice to the collectors, offering "Heritage" parts, etc.0
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Mike (WA) wrote:The story about the guy trying to filch the crankshaft reminds me of a similar situation with Cockshutt tractors. These were built in Canada and highly regarded. In 1962, they were working on a 100 HP prototype (the model 580), with 354 Perkins diesel engine, planetary differential and several other innovative features (their largest model at the time was about 65 HP). The company was acquired by White Motor Co. in a hostile takeover, and soon after, word came down to the shop to "cut up the 580's". There were 3 prototypes, and one of them was already a running tractor. It "ran" right out the back door and off the grounds! Everybody at the plant was upset about the takeover anyhow, so when inquiries were made, no one had seen a thing. The tractor stayed "underground" for about 20 years (long after the Statute of Limitations had run), but now makes the rounds of the shows.
Too bad someone didn't do that with an Avro Arrow, the Canadian built fighter plane that Diefenbaker ordered every part, plane, and plan be cut up and scrapped back in the '50's !!
Guess he was afraid someday the world would know what a total idiot he really was, if there was any evidence left around to prove it !!
Didn't work though
the world knows full well what a blowhard boffoon like him can do with a little political clout and total ignorance of what he's talking about in his pocket.
( I had a relative who worked with Orenda engines at the time, and knew from day to day what the plant was doing, and what the future was going to be. The new Iroquois engine that was far more powerful than the one they were using, and breaking all existing records with, was sitting on a dolly on the tarmac, ready to be put in the prototype, when the scrap it all order came down, I also actually saw an Arrow fly overhead one day during that time -- a sight I'll never forget !! )0 -
51hornetA wrote:Don't think he claimed that I think thats what the article writer thought he heard. Bernie probably said the 7X relief was standard in the 54 block. Also I see a lot of quotes from Bernie after his stroke some are misremembered but we know what he meant.
Nope. Please note the quotation marks in the article indicating what Mr. Seigfried had said.0 -
I have scans of several of Bernie's articles that were in the WTN back in '87 as .pdfs. If someone wants to host them on their website I would be glad to send the to you so others can share them.0
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50C8DAN wrote:I have scans of several of Bernie's articles that were in the WTN back in '87 as .pdfs. If someone wants to host them on their website I would be glad to send the to you so others can share them.
Dan,
Send them along - I'll put them on my web site.
Alex Burr
HudsonTech
Memphis, TN
NEChudsontech09@yahoo.com (drop the NEC)0 -
The letters and articles have been posted to my Hudson website. Dan provided same sometime ago.
http://members.aol.com/stepdown53/STEPDOWNRESTORATIONAIDS.html#ELECTRICAL_SYSTEMS
Check Bernie Siegrieds Letters.0
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