Tappet/valve adjustments on a 232
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I finally got around to the job of adjusting the valves on the 232 engine on my '50 Pacemaker with just over 70,000 miles on it. Since this was the first time I ever attempted to do this, I set them cold. The HOT settings call for .010 intake and .012 exhaust. It was suggested by someone in the local Chicago-Milwaukee chapter that the COLD settings should be .011 and .014 respectively. I used these cold specs and after completing the job (ALL the valves needed adjustment as they were on the tight side), I fired up the engine and after it warmed up I noticed that the usual rough idling was gone and the engine ran much smoother and also seems to have a bit more pep to it when driving down the road. The question I have is, are the cold settings I used OK in the long run considering that the 232 in my Pacemaker has the original valves and the car now runs, as is the case for most of us, on fuel that has a 10% alcohal content?
Thanks for any suggestions,
Dan
Thanks for any suggestions,
Dan
0
Comments
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You received good advice. Actually, I would have set them even a little looser since it is far better to hear a little tappet noise than have them tight and potentially burn a valve.....0
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1049superg wrote:
Using brand new feeler gauges, cold settings, set the intake 0.014 and the exhaust 0.017. If you make a long trip at your settings the valves will be less that factory settings, because today's gas is made to run hotter and you will damage your valves and valve seats. My way is the reason I have driven my Hornet 116,357 miles in 10 years and still have 130 compression. Forget the old ways because the cars in those days went 45 to 50 MPH and had lead in the gas. Walt's Garage.I finally got around to the job of adjusting the valves on the 232 engine on my '50 Pacemaker with just over 70,000 miles on it. Since this was the first time I ever attempted to do this, I set them cold. The HOT settings call for .010 intake and .012 exhaust. It was suggested by someone in the local Chicago-Milwaukee chapter that the COLD settings should be .011 and .014 respectively. I used these cold specs and after completing the job (ALL the valves needed adjustment as they were on the tight side), I fired up the engine and after it warmed up I noticed that the usual rough idling was gone and the engine ran much smoother and also seems to have a bit more pep to it when driving down the road. The question I have is, are the cold settings I used OK in the long run considering that the 232 in my Pacemaker has the original valves and the car now runs, as is the case for most of us, on fuel that has a 10% alcohal content?
Thanks for any suggestions,
Dan0 -
Why not do it the correct way, and do it HOT? This way you can have the correct factory settings, and no worries about how much they have closed up as the engine warms up. I fail to see why this is so difficult an operation for so many. I have always done the tappets hot, and to the factory clearances. I disagree that noisy tappets are an advantage. if you can hear them they are too wide, and are affecting the valve timing adversely.
Geoff.0 -
I agree with Geoff I set them hot. I wear gloves to protect my hands. Pretty easy.0
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I have noticed that many stepdown sixes that i have worked on, had deep pockets worn into the lifters. Probably from running loose. The valve stem pounds a depression in the adjusting bolt. It's not easy to see when they are assembled and coated with oil. No way can you set the proper clearance with a feeler guage. SO look carefully. If the tappet has a .010 depression in it and you use a .018 feeler guage, you will have a gap of .028 AND very noisy lifter That will result in have a negative affect on the duration and lift.
I have run out of old stock tappets. I know there are replacement tappets available from Dale and Randy, but they require machining some off all the valve stems. I suppose the adjusters could be machined and would probably need to be re-heat treated. Anyone "been there and done that?"Maybe there are new adjusting bolts available to use on the old tappets?. Of course, after the cam end is worn, it's best to just replace them.0 -
1049superg wrote:
I quess you people do not drive your Hudsons. Try driving your car 500 miles in one days for a total of 10,000 miles in one trip and see how long your valves last. Mine now have 116,000 miles in 10 years and still have 130 lbs compression. I drive speeds up to 95 MPH and tight valves will not last. The NOR-CAL members can verify this about my car. If you do short trips, yes, tight valves make a quiet engine. I built my Hudson to enjoy and drive.I finally got around to the job of adjusting the valves on the 232 engine on my '50 Pacemaker with just over 70,000 miles on it. Since this was the first time I ever attempted to do this, I set them cold. The HOT settings call for .010 intake and .012 exhaust. It was suggested by someone in the local Chicago-Milwaukee chapter that the COLD settings should be .011 and .014 respectively. I used these cold specs and after completing the job (ALL the valves needed adjustment as they were on the tight side), I fired up the engine and after it warmed up I noticed that the usual rough idling was gone and the engine ran much smoother and also seems to have a bit more pep to it when driving down the road. The question I have is, are the cold settings I used OK in the long run considering that the 232 in my Pacemaker has the original valves and the car now runs, as is the case for most of us, on fuel that has a 10% alcohal content?
Thanks for any suggestions,
Dan0 -
Have driven my '28 Essex half a million miles, '29 Hudson for 30 years, and 150,000 miles in my Jet. Always adjusted the valves hot, so there is no way they can close up further, and I know exactly what the clearance is. I'm not saying adjusting them cold won't work, as Walt has obviously proven, but there are variables, such as the material the valves are made of. Modern stainless valves will expand much more than original two-piece valves. By adjusting them hot, you know exaclty what you have.0
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Thanks to all who've commented here regarding setting the tappets on Hudson engines and in particular, thanks to both Geoff and Walt for their recommendations on adjusting the tappets hot or cold respectively. I have several questions for both Geoff and Walt concerning their suggestions and perhaps this would benefit other Hudson owners as well. Geoff, if I go ahead and set the valves hot, how much time do I generally have after thoroughly warming up the engine (bear in mind it's summer here in the U.S.) and should I make an allowence for the fuel we have here in the U.S. that contains ethanol? Walt, if I were to use your cold clearences of .014 intake and .017 exhaust, is this applicable on a stepdown 232 engine that still has its original factory valves and tappets? Either way, I'll also go ahead and purchase a new feeler gauge (as Walt suggested) for the job as mine now is near 25 years old. And, thankfully I left the inner right front fender off!
Hudsonly,
Dan Uscian0 -
There is more to having a "hot" engine than just running it up to temperature. Preferably run it for at least 10 miles, to get all the oil hot, and every working part expanded right out, and then for good measure, when you get home thro a rug over the grille, and run it for a few minutes, jut make sure it is really hot. You have a good half hour before things have staarted to cool down to any extent. For ease of adjustment, you need to either remove the spark plugs and tighten the fan belt up real tight to enable you to turn the engine over by the fan, (should be fine on a high mileage engine turning freely) or else wire up a push-button switch to the solenoid which you can activate from under the car to bump the engine over on the starter. If using the fan method you will of course have to remove the plugs. You should not have to allow any extra for ethanol. Good luck.0
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May I add that if you are using a switch to "bump" the engine over, please disconnect the coil wire from the distributor cap.
Jerry
53jetman0 -
1049superg wrote:
1948 TO 1954 ALL SIX (6) CYLINDER ENGINES ARE THE SAME ALONG WITH 1955 AND 56'S WHICH HAD A FEW OUTER ENGINE DESIGNS TO SHOE HORN INTO THE NASH CHASSIS. 56'S WERE HYDRALICS. IF YOU ARE GOING TO DO SHORT TRIPS SET THEM HOT 10 AND 12. IF YOU WILL BE DOING LONG TRIPS SET THEM MY WAY. MY FRIEND HAS A 53 AND HAD HIS VALVES HOT 10 AND 12 AND MADE A LONG TRIP AND HIS CAR IS NOW HAVING A VALVE JOB AND WILL BE SET MY WAY BY ME. SO IT'S UP TO YOU TO DECIDE. WALT.Thanks to all who've commented here regarding setting the tappets on Hudson engines and in particular, thanks to both Geoff and Walt for their recommendations on adjusting the tappets hot or cold respectively. I have several questions for both Geoff and Walt concerning their suggestions and perhaps this would benefit other Hudson owners as well. Geoff, if I go ahead and set the valves hot, how much time do I generally have after thoroughly warming up the engine (bear in mind it's summer here in the U.S.) and should I make an allowence for the fuel we have here in the U.S. that contains ethanol? Walt, if I were to use your cold clearences of .014 intake and .017 exhaust, is this applicable on a stepdown 232 engine that still has its original factory valves and tappets? Either way, I'll also go ahead and purchase a new feeler gauge (as Walt suggested) for the job as mine now is near 25 years old. And, thankfully I left the inner right front fender off!
Hudsonly,
Dan Uscian0 -
While I do not make my living as a mechanic, I have had the benefit of learning about Hudsons from Bernie Siegfried and folks who drove the heck out of their Hudsons as their prime transportation. That was me up until 15 years ago. In all that time I found that there was a consistency in the information I gleaned from those folks. That consistency was following the book. Do what Hudson advertised. So, with that said, changes in the composition of gasolines are pretty much a non starter when determining these settings. Ever heard of White gas? The truth of the matter is the gasoline formulations over the years have had lots of stuff thrown in to make the stuff explode and not tear the engine apart. Octane ratings aside... the combustion process requires compression over the time needed to burn the fuel being injected into the cylinders. Setting the valves to operate per Hudson specifications assures that when using their camshafts even the crappiest of fuel will burn efficiently and cleanly. Much of the valve failures that Hudson engines experience is historically documented in Hudsons own mechanics bulletins. Valve failure is consistently attributed to overheated engines. Engine overheating being attributed to failed clearances or timing which created excessive heat. Set the valves correctly after assuring the cam and followers are serviceable. Then assure that the timing is correct. Cooling is critical to keeping the valves and the rest of the engine operating efficiently.
If the parts are stock, the Hudson specs will get very good performance and engine service life.0 -
I set mine hot as I said before using settings from Hudsons mechanical procedures manual. Never had a problem and I drove the car from one side of Canada to the other(Slightly more than a short trip). To my way of thinking the engineers who designed the car might have a bit of knowledge on how to adjust engines they designed.0
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Regarding "How much time do I generally have after thoroughly warming up the engine?"
You can eliminate this issue by setting the clearances with the engine warm and idling. I've always done them that way. A bit of oil gets splattered around, but it cleans up easily. And yes, wear a long-sleeved shirt and gloves.0 -
1049superg wrote:
Just remember all, if you are going to travel today's highways at high speeds you better set your valves my way. When Hudson's were racing, in the 50's, the valves were set intake 0.015 and exhaust was 0.019. This was with a cold engine. If you have a Jack Clifford old book check what he recommended for valve settings. 10 and 12 was OK in those days but this is today. Different gas, more additives and more spark needed. Walt.I finally got around to the job of adjusting the valves on the 232 engine on my '50 Pacemaker with just over 70,000 miles on it. Since this was the first time I ever attempted to do this, I set them cold. The HOT settings call for .010 intake and .012 exhaust. It was suggested by someone in the local Chicago-Milwaukee chapter that the COLD settings should be .011 and .014 respectively. I used these cold specs and after completing the job (ALL the valves needed adjustment as they were on the tight side), I fired up the engine and after it warmed up I noticed that the usual rough idling was gone and the engine ran much smoother and also seems to have a bit more pep to it when driving down the road. The question I have is, are the cold settings I used OK in the long run considering that the 232 in my Pacemaker has the original valves and the car now runs, as is the case for most of us, on fuel that has a 10% alcohal content?
Thanks for any suggestions,
Dan0
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