Points Upgrade Not Going Well
I'm trying (so far unsucessfully) to replace the points on my 308 with a Pertronix Ignitor. 6 cylinder, positive ground, I'm using Pertronix' 1362P6 model. The install looks good to me, but I get nothing when I try to start - it just cranks and cranks.
I know the trouble shooting says check the ground wire. I don't get the ground wire - the entire distributor body is already grounded, why does one need a ground wire? Anyone else have any thoughts, ideas, trouble shooting techniques? Thanks in advance,
Dunc
'51 Pacemaker
Twin-H 308
I know the trouble shooting says check the ground wire. I don't get the ground wire - the entire distributor body is already grounded, why does one need a ground wire? Anyone else have any thoughts, ideas, trouble shooting techniques? Thanks in advance,
Dunc
'51 Pacemaker
Twin-H 308
0
Comments
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Do you have spark. Sometimes these modules are just no good. Check for spark first at the spark plug wire then back track to the coil. If you have spark the module is good.
Also if you have spark you may be "off " on the distributor when putting it back in. Then will have to find number one to set the distrib.0 -
I just went through this with my 46 Coupe. The Pertronix Ignitor was installed when the overdrive wasn't working. I then had the car completely rewired with a Y and Z harness.
The first time I drove it after the new harness was installed, it ran perfectly, including the OD....until I took it out of OD with the foot-feed. The engine started to miss and backfire. I nursed it home and started it an hour later and it ran fine.
Drove into town a couple days later and didn't disengage the OD until I was a mile from home. It did the same thing--coughing and backfiring and missing like the devil. Didn't make it. My son came out and towed me home.
I thought it was the Pertronix unit that I got from RetroRocket and called them. The guy there was extremely helpful and said that 99% of the time the problem is in the wiring. If you test with an OHMeter between the positive terminal of the coil and the positive battery terminal you should have almost no resistance--should be less than 2/10 of an ohm--if more there is a problem.
Well, I didn't have an ohmeter and I had a hunch the Ignitor was fried because he later said that if the car had OD, a 7 ohm resister had to be added to the circuit between the coil and the OD relay and the first mechanic had not done that. I assumed it was fried and ordered a new Ignitor as they would take it back if I found the old one was OK.
I had it trucked to the mechanic yesterday and he tested the old one and it definitely was fried. He put the new one in and it runs fine. I haven't talked with him about the 7 ohm resistor that must be added but I briefed him before he started working on it and he is too smart forget that.
I don't know where you got your Ignitor but Carl at Retrorocket was extremely helpful and I think he would help you whereever you got the unit.
jim kilday0 -
Dunc-IT wrote:
The black wire from the ignitor goes to a ground position, any where you want. The other wire goes to the coil + side, ignition wire goes to the -- (negetive) side of the coil. Walt.I'm trying (so far unsucessfully) to replace the points on my 308 with a Pertronix Ignitor. 6 cylinder, positive ground, I'm using Pertronix' 1362P6 model. The install looks good to me, but I get nothing when I try to start - it just cranks and cranks.
I know the trouble shooting says check the ground wire. I don't get the ground wire - the entire distributor body is already grounded, why does one need a ground wire? Anyone else have any thoughts, ideas, trouble shooting techniques? Thanks in advance,
Dunc
'51 Pacemaker
Twin-H 3080 -
walt's garage-53 wrote:The black wire from the ignitor goes to a ground position, any where you want. The other wire goes to the coil + side, ignition wire goes to the -- (negetive) side of the coil. Walt.
Well that's a little different then I currently have it wired. I have the black wire, from the Ignitor, going to the ignition switch wire. The other wire (black / white) going to the negative terminal on the coil and the positive side of the coil wired directly to ground. I thought that was the way Pertronix was telling me.
Dunc0 -
FWIW, several years ago I spoke with Pertronix about damage that might occur in an OD-equipped car when the ignition is temporarily grounded out by the kickdown switch or relay (depending on the type of relay used*). They said there should be no problem, and my friend, who had raised the question to me, ran his OD-equipped '54 many years with that Pertronix unit. Never a problem. I wonder if the electronics in the unit may have changed.
* '49 and earlier type, with 2-terminal kickdown switch, vs. '50 and later with 4-terminal switch.0 -
Well, I have to get it running before I worry about the OD messing things up.0
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Here is the link to the Installation Instructions for 6 Volt Positive Ground Applications.
http://www.pertronix.com/support/manuals/pdf/ignitor6vpos.pdf0 -
Those instructions were included in the box. The wiring is considerably different then Walt recommended. I followed Pertronix' instructions, but the car still won't start.
I'm unsure, as I said in my first post about the Ground Wire - I don't think that I have it reinstalled properly. But, I don't understand why it's even needed in the the distributor. The whole assembly, breaker plates included, are all positively grounded. What does the ground wire do? Why is it needed?
Dunc0 -
I might have missed it on the forum, is there a kit available for my 37 Terraplane? Who sales it? How much? I did a 427 Ford distr. that was a dual point and it sure worked nice. thanks0
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The module in the Pertronix ignition system is "encapslated - or potted" This makes me believe they have isolated some of the electrical components from ground inside the module so it can be used with a postive ground system. The ground wire will allow ground those components which require ground while maintaining the isolation of the rest of the electronics. While I am not privy to the specific design this is what is normally done with an electronic circuit where ground polarity is reversed.
Just so you have a data point, my installation was done according to the instruction sheet and worked exactly as desired the first time. I have an overdrive equipped car.0 -
I think the ground wire Pertronix is talking about is the wire between Points labeled "B" and "E" in the picture below.
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Pertronix also sell kits for 37T, Regards, Barry0
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As I posted earlier, do you have spark at the coil? This shouldn't be to hard to figure out. If there is spark at the coil but not at the spark plug wire you have a bad module . If you have spark at both places he dist was installed incorrectly back into the block.0
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Chuck G wrote:I might have missed it on the forum, is there a kit available for my 37 Terraplane? Who sales it? How much? I did a 427 Ford distr. that was a dual point and it sure worked nice. thanks
If your '37 Terraplane has a Autolite IGW series distributor, the Pertronix part number is 1568 (Hudson 6 1937 to 1947). It looks like it's about $140. For a dealer go online or use the dealer locator on the left side of the Pertronix web site.
http://www.pertronix.com/0 -
The Pertronix rig is basically making and breaking the coil's power circuit. The Pertronix instructions have you inserting the unit on the "power supply" side of the coil, while Walt's instructions have it inserted on the ground side, like the points are in the stock setup. It might work either way, but I'd go with the manufacturer's method. They want the electronics powered directly from the ignition switch, which is why they don't want the coil in between. As for the distributor ground wire, they may just want to be darned sure the distributor is grounded well. I'd put one on it even though Hudson didn't see the need for one. With the Pert unit, the electronics are being grounded via the distributor-to-engine connection, so it may be more critical to have it solidly grounded.0
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I have my Pertronix grounded directly to the + post on the battery.0
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