fuel pump
has anyone ever experienced or heard of fuel pumps that put out @ 5LBS of pressure on a cold or warmed engine than drop to @2lbs on a hot engine with 90d air temp.I installed the fuel loop as per Walt M instructions, but still starve out under load when engine is hot and outside temp is 88+. I suspect the fuel pump is getting too hot ( surface is 157 deg), so I sprayed cool water on the pump and it was fine again until the temp peaked again. Would a heat shield help? has anyone tried one on a 308 twin -H? I believe the pump is loosing efficiency when hot. The electric pump works fine. I want to isolate the problem before I swap AC mech pumps.
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Comments
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RonS - Where do you have the electric pump mounted? If under the car near the fuel tank, I wouldn't think you would have a heat build up problem.
Jerry
53jetman0 -
RonS wrote:
Walt here. Are you using the AMC pump? You must have the same shim pack that was on the original pump. Do you have my fuel return system, if yes, you must have a 0.030 restrictor in the return line.has anyone ever experienced or heard of fuel pumps that put out @ 5LBS of pressure on a cold or warmed engine than drop to @2lbs on a hot engine with 90d air temp.I installed the fuel loop as per Walt M instructions, but still starve out under load when engine is hot and outside temp is 88+. I suspect the fuel pump is getting too hot ( surface is 157 deg), so I sprayed cool water on the pump and it was fine again until the temp peaked again. Would a heat shield help? has anyone tried one on a 308 twin -H? I believe the pump is loosing efficiency when hot. The electric pump works fine. I want to isolate the problem before I swap AC mech pumps.0 -
Yes Walt, the restrictor is in line. In response to the prior question ,the location of the electric pump is about where the B piller is, but that is n't the problem. The car runs fine when the elec is running. The car starves when hot (water temp is 165) with only the mech pump being used. Spraying water on the pump in order to cool the mech pump temporarily solves the starvation. I am using the original AC dual action pump. How would one power the wipers under load with an AMC mech pump?0
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RonS wrote:
IF YOU HAVE THE DUAL ACTION FUEL PUMP WHICH CAME ORIGINAL YOU MUST HAVE THE CORRECT SHIM PACK AND THE BAKELITE SLEEVES THAT COVER THE BOLTS. THE ENGINE BLOCK IS OVERHEATING YOUR PUMP AND THIS WAS A PROBLEM BACK IN THOSE DAYS. TRY PUTTING A HOSE TO CARRY OUTSIDE AIR OVER YOUR FUEL PUMP. CARRY BOTTLE WATER ALSO SO WHEN IT VAPOR LOCKS JUST POUR A BOTTLE OVER THE PUMP. I WOULD INSTALL AN AMC PUMP AND END YOU PROBLEMS AND INSTALL ELECTRIC WIPERS. WALT.Yes Walt, the restrictor is in line. In response to the prior question ,the location of the electric pump is about where the B piller is, but that is n't the problem. The car runs fine when the elec is running. The car starves when hot (water temp is 165) with only the mech pump being used. Spraying water on the pump in order to cool the mech pump temporarily solves the starvation. I am using the original AC dual action pump. How would one power the wipers under load with an AMC mech pump?0 -
Walt,
I put an AMC pump on my 232, using the original pump gasket stack. The pump knocks when the engine is cold, but quiets down when it warms up. Do I add or remove gaskets?
R/ Roger.0 -
RonS wrote:
The AMC pump takes a 1/4 inch spacer. Walt.has anyone ever experienced or heard of fuel pumps that put out @ 5LBS of pressure on a cold or warmed engine than drop to @2lbs on a hot engine with 90d air temp.I installed the fuel loop as per Walt M instructions, but still starve out under load when engine is hot and outside temp is 88+. I suspect the fuel pump is getting too hot ( surface is 157 deg), so I sprayed cool water on the pump and it was fine again until the temp peaked again. Would a heat shield help? has anyone tried one on a 308 twin -H? I believe the pump is loosing efficiency when hot. The electric pump works fine. I want to isolate the problem before I swap AC mech pumps.0 -
I used to use about 1/2 qt. 2 cycle engine oil in gas tank. I used to have a 36 Dodge conv that was bad for vapour lock worked like a charm. duncan0
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Walt, Where do you buy an AMC fuel pump ??
carroll O0 -
Get them at NAPA0
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51hornetA wrote:
Go to a NAPA or a KRAGEN and ask for a fuel pump for an AMC Concord, airteck #6737 or a Blackstone or Niehoff #41249 Make sure you use a 1/4 inch shim pack for if not you will break the arm right off. More that that and you will have low fuel pressure. WaltGet them at NAPA0 -
thanks for the input. I never would have guessed that heat would pass through the bolts. I was assuming the heat was from the eXhaust manifold. What I noticed is that when I soak a small blanket of header wrap with cool water and place it over the fuel pump the car runs fine. Ofcourse the water evaporates and I must do it again. I am looking at designing a heat shield to keep the heat off the top of the pump. But the bolt thing is another matter. But winter is coming and it will be 6 months before the charming Arizona heat returns.0
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Got a new pump for only $21.00 locally [we don't have a NAPA here] anybody still making a 1/4 " shim ? Old buddy of mine who specializes in restoring tractors had the part in stock [independent parts house run by an old guy my age] but said he had no calls for shims in years. Seems that NAPA has an issue with the locals due to buying groups out selling them in Eastern NC,last store folded after only a few months, this means no echlin or better grade of paint.0
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coverton wrote:
The 1/4 inch spacers I sell if you can not locate one. HETwaltmordenti@aol.com Leave HET off.Got a new pump for only $21.00 locally [we don't have a NAPA here] anybody still making a 1/4 " shim ? Old buddy of mine who specializes in restoring tractors had the part in stock [independent parts house run by an old guy my age] but said he had no calls for shims in years. Seems that NAPA has an issue with the locals due to buying groups out selling them in Eastern NC,last store folded after only a few months, this means no echlin or better grade of paint.0 -
Took out my parts book and what did I see?Two small spacers and fiber washers for the cap bolts holding the fuel pump to the block. What is the bolt size and length that is needed to fasten the pump and still fit through that insulator sleeve? I expect that the bolts that hold the pump now,won't fit through the flange holes when I add the insulators and washers. In addition the threads on the new boltmight be too narrow.0
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Somewhere these questions have probably been answered already, but it will take ages to filter through all the text on this electric fuel pump issue, so I'll just ask them again.
1. From previous threads I deduce I can put a vane pump inline somewhere near the fuel tank, and pump right through my dual action stock pump with no problems. I'm just thinking of using the vane pump to prime the system for a quick start-up, then switching it off and using the stock mechanical one from there ( unless I have a vapor lock ).
2. From Walt's instructions I deduce I need a thirty thou orfice tee'd in ( between the two pumps ????), with a return line to the filler neck to keep the system from over-pressuring. Since I don't plan on using the vane (electric) pump all the time, I guess I'll need a check valve in the return line to prevent the mechanical pump from sucking air through the return line as well, but that's no big deal.
3. If I now can pre-pressurize the system before start-up with the electric, -- do I still need to have working chokes ?? Is the purpose of chokes not to provide more fuel and less air on cold starts to keep the engine running until it warms up, and will the electric pump not do this job in their place?
Basically, I'm trying to think of some way to prevent that bleed-back in the fuel line when the car sits for a day or two, which leads to a long (and sometimes emberassing) crank time, when you've got a gaggle of friends standing around gawking, and you're trying to show them how great she runs !! After the first four or five flips, everybody, including me, starts wondering if she's gonna start at all, and sort of takes the shine off the moment, so to speak.
Since I hate discovering modern, or non-stock components under a Hudson hood when I stick my nose in there, anything I do will have to be hidden away somewhere out of sight to all but the Guy on a creeper. That much I'll allow, but even if I can't see the so-called improvements, I don't want to listen to any clickety-clickety electric fuel pump while I'm cruising around like Joe Cool either --- hence my choice of maybe a vane pump, and running only momentarily before start-up. That clickety-clickety just ain't the way it was back in the day.
Am I way off track here?
silverone.0 -
Well I can only comment how I hooked my electric pump on a street stock Hornet that is rarely driven. Mounted low near the tank, teed into the line and wired thru a fused 'Lighted Toggle' switch. I turn it on mometarily before starting then shut it off; If driven every day the electric pump would not be necessary.
A couple Safety Points.
Electric Pumps should be Fused and run thru an Oil Pressure Switch (Not an oil Sender) to stop pumping when motor stops (in case of accident or leaving key on)
Additionally,
You will still need your Choke
Regarding Dual Fuel Pumps; while good for wipers pulling upgrade, I have always been told they wear the cam lobe, and when go bad leak oil and enable gas to enter pan.0 -
Ol racer wrote:Well I can only comment how I hooked my electric pump on a street stock Hornet that is rarely driven. Mounted low near the tank, teed into the line and wired thru a fused 'Lighted Toggle' switch. I turn it on mometarily before starting then shut it off; If driven every day the electric pump would not be necessary.
A couple Safety Points.
Electric Pumps should be Fused and run thru an Oil Pressure Switch (Not an oil Sender) to stop pumping when motor stops
Additionally,
You will still need your Choke
Regarding Dual Fuel Pumps; while good for wipers pulling upgrade, I have always been told they wear the cam lobe, and when go bad leak oil and enable gas to enter pan.
What about a quality inline check valve just before the inlet to the stock pump, and forget about the electric and its nuances ? Would this stop the bleed-back, and subsequent hard starts ??
Anyone tried this yet ?
I think you're right about the leak, and gas issues on a stock dual-stage pump gone bad, Ol' Racer ! I think this is what happened to my old pump before I rebuilt the engine, and bought a new pump for it. What a lovely mess that was, around and under that pump.
Hope the new one has a better diaphram !!
silverone0
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