Engine rebuild now or later?
I'm trying to decide if I should rebuild my engine or try and run it first.
My son and I have just started restoring a 1941 Hudson Traveller.
My wife said her dad had the car running about 1972, it's been garaged since then, I bought it from him around 89. We're beginners in the restoration process but possess decent mechanical skills.
About 15 years ago I poured a quart of Marvel Mystery oil into the engine, waited 24 hours and turned the fan by hand until the engine freed up. After that, I changed the oil, poured a little gas into the carburetor and got the engine to cough and turn over once or twice (the gas tank has rusted out). After that, I never got back to it and it has sat in the garage since. The engine has no visible oil leaks.
My concern is, without having really run the engine for 35+ years, am I at risk of causing engine damage by just starting it or would you recommend a more cautious route of teardown, inspection and rebuild.
We're just at the stage of removing and cleaning parts (67 years of grease and gunk) and if we decide the pull the engine now we were thinking we just might as well rebuild.
Mike
My son and I have just started restoring a 1941 Hudson Traveller.
My wife said her dad had the car running about 1972, it's been garaged since then, I bought it from him around 89. We're beginners in the restoration process but possess decent mechanical skills.
About 15 years ago I poured a quart of Marvel Mystery oil into the engine, waited 24 hours and turned the fan by hand until the engine freed up. After that, I changed the oil, poured a little gas into the carburetor and got the engine to cough and turn over once or twice (the gas tank has rusted out). After that, I never got back to it and it has sat in the garage since. The engine has no visible oil leaks.
My concern is, without having really run the engine for 35+ years, am I at risk of causing engine damage by just starting it or would you recommend a more cautious route of teardown, inspection and rebuild.
We're just at the stage of removing and cleaning parts (67 years of grease and gunk) and if we decide the pull the engine now we were thinking we just might as well rebuild.
Mike
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Comments
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Mike-
I agree with your thoughts. Might as well pull it and tear it down. You said it was running 35 years ago when parked, but how well? And how many miles were on it when it was parked? If you can get it to turn over by hand, you can get it running, but for how long and at what risk? Hudson engines are notoriously very good about long bouts of inactivity, but it's always better to be safe than sorry.
Besides, you're in the middle of a restoration, so why not do it now and be so much more worry-free in the short- and long-term?
My 2 cents worth- but it's what I would do, regardless.;)0 -
When I got my 29 Hudson I was told by the owner that it smoked when parked 11 years ago. I got her home and put ATF in each piston and started a look over. I droped the pan cleaned all the gunk installed a new screen and reinstalled. I then cleaned and made the best I could the fuel system. This was about 3-4 weeks. I turned it over with the crank and let it sit and did it again and again. A few weeks later She started and now several years later she still does not smoke. Ron0
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At the very least I would drop the oil pan and clean it out thoroughly, and check for any acid corrosion in the bottom of the troughs. This is not an onerous task. If the engine turns over freely, I would then re-istallt he pan, not forgetting to fill the toroughs first, and attempt to get it running. who knows, you may be as lucky as Ron.
Geoff.0 -
I would suggest taking a Compression Test with a full battery as well . You may get lucky and/or you may find a valve sticking and only need to do an in-chassis valve Job.0
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I agree with Geoff. Why plunge into a complete engine rebuild when the thing may be in decent shape? (Unless you just enjoy spending time and money!) Do some basic clean-up and then give it a whirl. What the heck!
You'll want to drop the pan and clean it out for sure (there is an upper "dipper trough" pan too), as Geoff says. You want to get that old oil out and clean up the inevitable "gunk" that may have accumulated because you don't want it going through your system and gunking up the works.
When you get the new oil in, be sure to turn the engine over (you could do this by hand at first) just to get the new oil spread around, before actually starting it up.
Chances are pretty great, that some valves may have rusted in the open position. Take off the valve covers and note whether or not the valve stems are moving up and down. If not you might be able to save the day by spraying penetrating oil up into the valve guides, working the engine some, letting it sit, coming back to it a day later and repeating. However, it may be that they're so badly rusted that you'll have to just pull the head and then try driving them down with a hammer.
Good luck. Come back here and tell us what happened. Between all of us, there is hardly a Hudson engine that we haven't been able to fix, nor a Hudson malady that we haven't seen...0 -
I would as Geoff says pull the pan clean it good and fill the top pan. With the valve covers off you can pour the oil in the tappet chamber and it will fill the trough to the main bearings as well as the top pan. That way the mains are lubed as soon as engine is turned. Remove plugs and spin over a few times with starter. You can tell if any valves are stuck by holding a finger over the plug holes or take a compression test. My Dad bought a new 41 Traveller in Knoxville. The city had bought 19 Travellers with 212 engines and a few other little goodies. Dealer ordered 20 so we got the ertra. A couple of years later out on a Sunday afternoon joy ride to a new road TVA was building he hit a large rock and tore the bottom out of the oil pan. Drove it back to town about 10 mile with no damage. The next day we pulled the pan and the throughs were still almost full. Last Time I saw the old car had around 250000 mile on it.0
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Take this for a grain of salt but I siphoned some gas into the carb ( gas can sittin on the cowl)let it sit a little pumped it a couple of times and put the battery in it and let it fly? Funny thing is it ran just like it was in service last week and its been setting for 20 years out side. Its also the origional engine for the car. I would try it first and then go from there?
Good luck0 -
If you're not strapped for time and money I would recommend pulling it apart for a full rebuild + replacing/rebuilding all engine accessories. I did this last year and it feels great knowing everything under the hood is good for another 44 years.
If money and time are an issue & if you (dare to) get it running I would recommend testing compression and oil pressure. If these are within spec I would leave it alone except for cleaning whatever you can get at with the heads & oil pan off, new hoses & belts and a tune up. Changing the timing gear and perhaps the oil pump seems wise.
Cheers,
Reijer0 -
degrenier wrote:
Hi---This engine is a splasher type Hudson which has about a quart of oil that always remain in the upper trough pan, even after draining. Therefore, if you do get the engine started as it currently sits, you will be splashing around 20 year old oil which is not good. Drop the pan first, clean it up & put in a quart of fresh oil in the dipper trough & reinstall. Then you can continue with your engine evaluation after getting it started.---Cliff Minard.I'm trying to decide if I should rebuild my engine or try and run it first.
My son and I have just started restoring a 1941 Hudson Traveller.
My wife said her dad had the car running about 1972, it's been garaged since then, I bought it from him around 89. We're beginners in the restoration process but possess decent mechanical skills.
About 15 years ago I poured a quart of Marvel Mystery oil into the engine, waited 24 hours and turned the fan by hand until the engine freed up. After that, I changed the oil, poured a little gas into the carburetor and got the engine to cough and turn over once or twice (the gas tank has rusted out). After that, I never got back to it and it has sat in the garage since. The engine has no visible oil leaks.
My concern is, without having really run the engine for 35+ years, am I at risk of causing engine damage by just starting it or would you recommend a more cautious route of teardown, inspection and rebuild.
We're just at the stage of removing and cleaning parts (67 years of grease and gunk) and if we decide the pull the engine now we were thinking we just might as well rebuild.
Mike0 -
This is Mike again, by the way this awesome, one of the reasons I didn't start this 20 years ago was the difficulty finding good advice and information for the first timer. Thanks again!
The car was road worthy in 1972, my father-in-law bought it as an investment, and drove it around the yard but never put it back on the road. The car has 37K miles on it. Around 92 when I tried to start it, I did pull the oil pan, cleaned it and didn't notice any excessive gunk. However, I was unaware of the upper trough, so I definitely need to check that.
For starters, I like the idea of the compression test and checking for stuck valves. The rebuild is definitely in the future since out plan is keep the car in family as an heirloom.
Who is a good source for replacement gaskets?0 -
Get them from Dale Cooper0
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Dale's webpage is at http://www.hudsonmotorcarco.com/welcome.htm .
I don't recall your saying whether you belong to the Hudson club, but if you mean to hold onto your car, you'd certainly want to consider doing so.
http://www.hudsonclub.org/0 -
Thanks Jon,
I did join the Club and the NW Chapter last month. and met some of the members at the recent Classic Car show in Portland, Oregon.
Mike0 -
Well, my 2 cents. I don't want to pop your bubble, but My 40 Eight was running and I was In about the same quandry.
Since I had a few broken exaust studs I took the manifold off, well, there's the head, and I wondered how the valves looked. Good, but I got t'wondering whether the rings were stuck..and I had a new set on the shelf.
Off with the pan, Whoa what's this? The last guy in here cleaned the screens by poking a lot of holes in them with a Phillips-head screwdriver.
The rods checked out good, so out with the pistons. Several rings stuck, and a piston cracked. AND the end bearings on the camshaft looked boogered up. Sure enough, they had spun, and were part-way out.
Well, I'm this far, and the last 2 splashers I took apart had main babbit missing, so out with the crankshaft. The 3 center mains were missing most of the babbit.
It was running good too, but it wouldn't have run long. Now it's back together and running good..and I know it's condition.
Peace of mind, For a few hours work and a couple hundred bucks, mostly for gaskets.
My vote is take it apart and inspect it at least.0 -
51hornetA wrote:Get them from Dale Cooper
Dale Cooper contact 513 821 6200 www.hudsonmotorcarco.com0 -
Hey Mike,
Your not far from my neck of the woods here in Port Orchard.
I have gotten parts for my 36 Terraplane at Hagens Auto Parts there on River Road. They deal in LOTS of older stuff. Also for gaskets their is a guy out her by me named Sandy Olson who has a company called Olsons Gaskets. He has or can make just about anything thats needed. Let me know if you need his number, and I think he has a website too.
Good luck,
T Jeff0 -
jjbubaboy wrote:Hey Mike,
Your not far from my neck of the woods here in Port Orchard.
I have gotten parts for my 36 Terraplane at Hagens Auto Parts there on River Road. They deal in LOTS of older stuff. Also for gaskets their is a guy out her by me named Sandy Olson who has a company called Olsons Gaskets. He has or can make just about anything thats needed. Let me know if you need his number, and I think he has a website too.
Good luck,
T Jeff
JACKPOT! and I've been driving by this place for over 20 years. I found and bookmarked both sites. Only problem I have now is my darned day job isn't allowing me to work 25 hours a day on this. :rolleyes:
Thanks again,
Mike0 -
degrenier wrote:JACKPOT! and I've been driving by this place for over 20 years. I found and bookmarked both sites. Only problem I have now is my darned day job isn't allowing me to work 25 hours a day on this. :rolleyes:
Thanks again,
Mike
Small world - born and raised in Puyallup - currently in Port Orchard!
I know of Hagens Parts - can't believe they're still around!
It's now getting to the Point we're going to need to have a "Northwest Hudson Forum Reunion" soon as there's at least 4 active members within driving distance of each other!
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I put a spare engine in my '39 CCl8 because after a long period of storage I wanted to get it running temporarily for the Woodward cruise and some local cruise nights in town. The spare engine was pulled by a hotrodder from another '39 he got out of a collapsed barn on the edge of town. It was sitting on its side in a wrecking yard. I had my doubts but it did turn over and the price was right, and I had a vision. I also had the car's original engine, which I am assembling (see other thread) but that process is going to take awhile.
I always pull the head on yard engines because there's always a stuck valve or two and I like to see if someone, at some time in the past, turned this over with a wrench (sometimes cracks rings if the cylinders are rusty enough!). I'm glad I did. I ended up pulling all the valves, cleaning up the stems and lapping them in. The cylinders were unbelieveably nice - but two years in the weather did some damage to everything else. The cooling passages and water manifold were a mess - glad I ordered a gasket set. The carburetor was not bad but I found a new one locally and put it on.
I flushed the pan clean, put it back together and fired it up on the bench before dropping it in the car. It was a marathon weekend and, while I was afraid to take it to Woodward it made it to our cruise night and halfway back before blowing the #5 sparkplug out of a stripped hole. It also has quite an exhaust manifold leak. It'll do for now.
The guys at work got quite a kick out of adding up what I spent fixing up the yard engine while buying parts for my good engine. It was worth it to see this car going down the road for the first time since the 1960s.0 -
Hey Dan,
Now thats a DAN GOOD IDEA!! LOL
T Jeff0
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