262 main seal question

ratlee2
ratlee2 Expert Adviser
edited November -1 in HUDSON
One of my winter projects will be to crawl under my '53 super wasp and replace both main seals on the car. I replaced both a couple years ago with the mops strings and a new rope seal and I am looking for some advice before round two. Do the wood pegs seal any better? I believe the problem I have is related to the main cap where the string seals go since my front main leaks the worst. Should I have used RTV on the mop strings before installing? I was planning to drop the oil pan but not remove transmission.



Rich

Comments

  • Richard E.
    Richard E. Senior Contributor
    I have been told that the only way to do it right is to pull the engine and turn it upside down on a bench and pound the string in with a tool similar to the one used by Hudson. I replaced the one on my 262 about 8 years ago using a "sneaky pete," and it still leaks. I am pulling my engine this winter to do it right! I am sure that other items will need to be done while engine is out, but it has 94,000 and was mostly rebuilt at 59,000. I did a valve job and a new timing chain after my timing chain jumped on my way home from the Seattle National, I did make it home, but barely!
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    I had the rear main seal replaced on my '50 Pacemaker, Deluxe!, a couple of years ago. The engine was removed and then the transmission with that darned "Supermatic" was taken off to do this job right. I also had the throw out bearing, pilot bearing, timing gears and chain, and oil pump gear replaced while the engine was out. Finally, my engine received a new coat of silver paint before being reinstalled. So far, there's no leakage from the rear seal.



    Hudsonly,



    Dan
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    ratlee2 wrote:
    One of my winter projects will be to crawl under my '53 super wasp and replace both main seals on the car. I replaced both a couple years ago with the mops strings and a new rope seal and I am looking for some advice before round two. Do the wood pegs seal any better? I believe the problem I have is related to the main cap where the string seals go since my front main leaks the worst. Should I have used RTV on the mop strings before installing? I was planning to drop the oil pan but not remove transmission.



    Rich





    If the motor is to be removed, your ability to install the seals is vastly improved. If you do not remove the engine the Hudson manual has a procedure for dropping the pan and replacing the seals. This procedure involves using elongated bolts to drop the cross member so that the pan can be completely removed. The added space allows access to the front of the pan. Replacement seals can be installed without the engine being removed successfully. But you MUST be diligent in your actions. If using the rope seal any small piece of string between the cap and block will create a leak. Careful prep and installation will result in stopping the leak. This presumes the leak is from that seal. Using the wood is the factory method of sealing the sides of the bearing cap and is essential to a good seal job. To properly seal the front of the crank usea good seal (NEW not a NOS with years of shelf time). The seal must ride on a smooth surface (make sure the seal mounting ring is not grooved). I use a bit of permatex (BN) on the seal and use a seal installation tool to insert into the timing cover. When installing the pan, remove old seal and clean, clean, clean the gasket surface. Use a good gasket sealant on the pan and mount the gasket. Use an old trick ... rubber bands at every hole to hold the gasket in place and install... use the correct torque on the pan bolts and let the sealant set up before running the engine.



    Good Luck
  • mars55
    mars55 Senior Contributor
    Some people have used a two piece neoprene seal from a older Chrysler 318 V8 engine. See this thread.



    http://www.classiccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9209&highlight=dodge+seal
  • Geoff
    Geoff Senior Contributor
    I don't want to confuse the issue, but it started out as wanting advice to replace the string packing that goes up the sides of the main bearing caps, not the actual oil seals themselves. This packing stops oil from leaking past the sides of the cap. This can be done without removing the engine. I have successfully used grey Loctite 5699 Flange Sealant for this job. You have to remove all the old string first, then flush out the hole with something like Brakleen or lacquer thinners to remove any trace of oil. when completely dry, insert the nozzle of the gun into the hole and squeeze hard until the sealant is firmly up in the hole. Then resist the urge to start the engine for at least a day, to give the sealant time to solidify. This works on all Hudson and Essex motors. However, if you want to do it the original way, the best thing to use is mop string. You have to have a blunt punch which goes all the way up into the hole, and progressively feed the string up the hole and tamp it into place. Good luck,

    Geoff.
  • mdwhit
    mdwhit Expert Adviser
    Richard E. wrote:
    I have been told that the only way to do it right is to pull the engine and turn it upside down on a bench and pound the string in with a tool similar to the one used by Hudson. I replaced the one on my 262 about 8 years ago using a "sneaky pete," and it still leaks. I am pulling my engine this winter to do it right! I am sure that other items will need to be done while engine is out, but it has 94,000 and was mostly rebuilt at 59,000. I did a valve job and a new timing chain after my timing chain jumped on my way home from the Seattle National, I did make it home, but barely!



    IMHO Just to comment on the Sneaky Pete - I've always believed that the major problem with using one is tha they actually stretch a rope-type seal as it is pulled through. This is aside from the good info from Geoff and everyone else in this thread, and only meant to comment on the use of a Sneaky Pete
  • 53jetman
    53jetman Senior Contributor
    Geoff C., N.Z. wrote:
    I don't want to confuse the issue, but it started out as wanting advice to replace the string packing that goes up the sides of the main bearing caps, not the actual oil seals themselves. This packing stops oil from leaking past the sides of the cap. This can be done without removing the engine. I have successfully used grey Loctite 5699 Flange Sealant for this job. You have to remove all the old string first, then flush out the hole with something like Brakleen or lacquer thinners to remove any trace of oil. when completely dry, insert the nozzle of the gun into the hole and squeeze hard until the sealant is firmly up in the hole. Then resist the urge to start the engine for at least a day, to give the sealant time to solidify. This works on all Hudson and Essex motors. However, if you want to do it the original way, the best thing to use is mop string. You have to have a blunt punch which goes all the way up into the hole, and progressively feed the string up the hole and tamp it into place. Good luck,

    Geoff.



    I have used this method of sealing the main bearing caps on my '53 Jet engine, and son Dave has used it on a number of Hudson engines he has rebuilt over the past years. Seems to do a much better job of sealing the caps than the old mop string method.



    Jerry

    53jetman
  • ratlee2
    ratlee2 Expert Adviser
    Thanks guys, great advice as always. I guess I should clarify a little more. I did replace all seals when I had the engine out of the car including the crankshaft spacer at the timing cover. The leak is from the main cap itself. I will give Geoff's method a try and see if it solves the problem.



    Thanks,

    Rich
  • Park_W
    Park_W Senior Contributor
    OK guys ... I'll bite. What's a Sneaky Pete?
  • mdwhit
    mdwhit Expert Adviser
    It's like a Chinese Handcuff (if anyone remembers that expression...). In other words; it is a cylindrical web-type mesh, where the core is hollow - and as you pull on it, the web becomes longer, and the core becomes smaller. In other words, the pulling pressue causes the web area to be longer, and thus the hole in the center becomes smaller (because the web wire is a fixed length it can not stretch, and thus as it is pulled longer, the center becomes smaller), which causes the mesh to tighten (or gripe) around whatever you have put in it. I hope this explanation makes sense. I know exactly what a Sneaky Pete is (I've used them), but for me to attempt to explain it...wow!!! Maybe someone else can do better.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    This shows it. Good luck, Ron



    http://www.autozone.com/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/05/14/cd/0900823d800514cd/repairInfoPages.htm
  • Richard E.
    Richard E. Senior Contributor
    You've done a better job than I could do of explaining it. I was lucky when I bought one at NAPA a few years ago, only an old guy behind the counter knew what I was talking about and to my amazement, they had one!!
  • mars55
    mars55 Senior Contributor
    Here are two web sites that sell Main Bearing Seal Remover/Installer Sets.



    http://www.jcwhitney.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product?storeId=10101&Pr=p_Product.CATENTRY_ID%3A2017919&productId=2017919&catalogId=10101



    http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-27000-Sneaky-Pete-Tool/dp/B0002SRCJW
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