Stud removal

kamzack
kamzack Senior Contributor
edited November -1 in HUDSON
My 254 block and components have been at the machine shop for nearly 3 years. Says the holdup is removing studs. I got a few of them out before I took it. I was sure he'd have a foolproff way of getting them out. He's the best engine builder in this part of the country as he builds race engines for drag and circle. Says he's tried heating with the blue ax to no avail. I saoked them for weeks on end dousing them daily with another coat. I put two nuts on them and pulled and pulled I don't want to snap them off. I'm becoming impatient as I want to be a part of the National meet in a Hudson. I'm a little less than a hundred miles from Detroit area. So, I'm sure this may seem like a beginner question, but I'm hoping my Hudson family will have suggestions

Thanks in advance,

Kim

Comments

  • Simple, break them off and redrill and retap.
  • Aaron D. IL
    Aaron D. IL Senior Contributor
    I would think a good machine shop would be used to addressing such problems. 3 years seems like a long time to me. I recently had an engine at a rebuilders to get out 3 broken studs. The corrosion was extensive enough to have literally fused the studs to the block. Well the rebuilder actually busted an industrial grade tap grinding the old studs out, but he did get it, cleaned up all the thread holes on the block and put a new gasket and the head back on it with new studs. I'm trying to have a car ready for Pontiac myself.
  • Three years? That's a joke and he is leading you on. Get someone else.
  • MikeWA
    MikeWA Senior Contributor
    I agree with nhp1127- but DON'T call him on it, because then he WILL bust them all trying to get them out, and you're stuck with him for another 3 years. Just find another machine shop, and show up at the old one unannounced, with a truck, and load it up. Be prepared to pay him up for what he has done, because he will assert a mechanic's lien on it until you pay him. Good luck.
  • I'm with Tombia. Drilling them out would take 2 years 364 days less time!



    Tom Drew
  • 35Terra
    35Terra Senior Contributor
    Or you could send it out to a shop that has an EDM and they can burn them out without touching the threads.



    Jim
  • Uncle Josh
    Uncle Josh Senior Contributor
    ie "Electrical Discharge Machining" An electrode contacts the stud in a coolant bath, creating a continuous spark which erodes the stud away. It's slow, but it works.



    They can be drilled and tapped out, but it has to be center punched and drilled dead center with progressively larger drills until you get to the root diameter of the thread, and tapped v e r r y carefully. If you break the tap in there, you most likely WILL have to go to the EDM machine, because the taps are so hard there's no drilling them.



    I do it with mine, but I'm a graduate toolmaker with training and experience, and it's still nervewracking hairy work. Find a mechanic with experience and guts.



    If they're fused (rusted fast) to the block, manifold etc., then penetrating oils don't, and neither do easy-outs.



    Sometimes passing a current from the stud to the base metal with a welder will heat the interface enough to loosen them.



    An interesting method in 'Vintage Truck' magazine last year, advocates using plain water as a penetrant. Keep it wet and tap it with a small hammer several times a day. I used this method on a half-dozen manifold studs on a 254 and 3 or 4 of them turned right out. BUT another two didn't either.



    Good Luck and some expertise

    Larry
  • Clutchguy
    Clutchguy Senior Contributor
    kamzack wrote:
    My 254 block and components have been at the machine shop for nearly 3 years. Says the holdup is removing studs. I got a few of them out before I took it. I was sure he'd have a foolproff way of getting them out. He's the best engine builder in this part of the country as he builds race engines for drag and circle. Says he's tried heating with the blue ax to no avail. I saoked them for weeks on end dousing them daily with another coat. I put two nuts on them and pulled and pulled I don't want to snap them off. I'm becoming impatient as I want to be a part of the National meet in a Hudson. I'm a little less than a hundred miles from Detroit area. So, I'm sure this may seem like a beginner question, but I'm hoping my Hudson family will have suggestions

    Thanks in advance,

    Kim



    Why is the reason you are removing these studs?. Does the deck need milled?. I have found you do not have to remove these to bore the block or to put hardened seats in it?. Make sure the bottom of the block[pan rail] is clean and free of old gaskets and rust. Remove the 2 front main bearing studs.
  • You guys will more than likely laugh at this one - it doesnt sound right to me but here goes - guy I knew had a stuck stud , a machinest told him to melt candle wax at the base of the stud , that the wax will run in and loosen the stud . Sounds weird to me , might even be weird enough to work ??? anyone ever heard of this one
  • faustmb
    faustmb Senior Contributor
    When pulling the exhaust manifold on a 46 8 cylinder engine, all but 3 of the studs snapped. I was 18 and very impatient. I drilled them all back out very easily as mentioned above starting with a small drill. A few of them actually spun out once I drilled about 75 percent of the center out. I had to chase the threads with a tap when I was done, but I didn't actually cut new threads. I was able to pick most of the bolt threads with a scribe.



    These studs were very soft. I did this with the engine in the car using a crappy drill and worn out bits. The engine builder is just coming up with excuses.



    The only screw up I had was the that I couldn't get a straight shot at the stud closest to the firewall. I was young and stupid so I drilled anyway. I has to build that hole back up with weld and redrill the right way.



    Matt
  • hudsonguy
    hudsonguy Senior Contributor
    Sometimes this method has worked for me: with a small pick and wire brush, completely clean the crud from the base of the stud. Sometime heating with a small torch will help burn away the stuff. Then after soaking it with a good penetrating oil, wrap a rag around the stud to make a 'seal' of sorts, and with an air chuck with a rubber tip, 'force' the oil down into the threads.
  • kamzack
    kamzack Senior Contributor
    Thanks guys for your suggestions and encouragement. My machine shop guy is a very dear friend, who won't let me give him any money. I've given and done things for him out of friendship, so he says he owes me. I sell welding alloys, so when he needs something I supply it at n/c. He was diagnosed with bladder cancer Jan 08, so this past year has been a challenge for him and still he's in his shop 12 hours a day 6 and 7 days a week. He's one of few busiesses that isn't struggeling to stay alive. He told me a couple of months ago he'd get my engine done before he dies. He's like alot of highly gifted and talented people in that they're somewhat touchy and have thier pecularities. So ya see the spot I'm in.

    Again, thanks for your help

    Kim
  • russmaas
    russmaas Senior Contributor
    Put the block in a engine stand , turn it over and try filling the water jacket with muratic acid and let it work for about an hour. Use heavy duty latex gloves and respirator. Can burn your hands and lungs, but effective in removing corrosion
  • Another oddball thing I have tried, and it does sometimes work is brake fluid. Brake fluid will eat at the rust like penetrating oil.
    Bob
  • bob ward
    bob ward Senior Contributor
    You should have a mobile stud removal service in your area.



    3 or 4 years ago I needed the exhaust manifold replaced on my Rodeo. I was at the mechanics during the removal process and freaked out when one of the manifold studs broke off flush with the block. Common problem with Rodeos I'm told.



    Not to worry they said, we'll get the stud guy in.



    Stud guy says I?.



    Apparently there is a specialist guy set up in a van who has seen it all studwise, has all the equipment and makes a living from removing broken and/or stuck studs.



    Failing that, I would suggest liberating the block temporarily from its present location and taking it to an engineering workshop with a decent size milling machine. They will be able to set up the block and accurately machine out the broken studs without damaging the threads.
  • tigermoth
    tigermoth Expert Adviser
    hello kim, i feel your pain. i have a friend who has a machine shop and he has significant health issues too. he is VERY sharp and works hard inspite of his health issues. i had a block i just got back after a year. i could not/ would not do it any other way. the guy is just working too hard and is an inspiration. i have not tried this, but i have read about this. use a modeling clay to build a "well" around the base of each stud and fill the well with either citric acid (lemon juice) or coke. the acidic level in coca cola is quite high. don't let it dry out and leave it soak for a week or so. the articles said this is slower than muratic acid, but much, much safer and the article said just as effective. it also said oxidation process causes the stud/bolt to chemically expand. that is why it said the rust removal by acid was more effective than penetrating oil. in fact it said that if parts are really rusted penetrating oil does not work because there is no space for it to penetrate. regards, tp
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