Splasher Valve Stem Seals

Unknown
Unknown
edited November -1 in HUDSON
Has anyone ever successfully used some sort of valve stem seal on the splasher engine ? My 212 has good compression and very little blowby yet it oils the plugs and uses a bit too much oil. Don't really want to tear it down for all new guides and valves . Thanks, BUD

Comments

  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Believe you need a set of rings and not stem seals.
  • terraplane8
    terraplane8 Senior Contributor
    Ken U-Tx wrote:
    If your oil consumption is high, its more likely the problem is that the cast iron oil control rings have lost their tension, and thus don't wipe the oil off the cylinder walls well at higher rpms. A new set of modern expander type oil control rings might just be the ticket.

    Also, are you sure you are not overfilling the oil pan? If the dipstick is not correct it could lead to overfilling, which allows the crank to throw more oil up on the cylinder walls and the oil control rings can't handle it, thus the oil level drops quicker.

    If you have a combination fuel and vacuum pump, if the vacuum diaphragm is cracked, oil can get sucked into the intake and be burned along with fouling the plugs.

    As for putting valve stem seals on a splasher six, the modern engines that have valve stem seals usually have a groove on the guide that retains the valve stem seal. You'd have to machine the guides to hold the seal. Besides, the flat head valves don't allow oil up the guides as easily as overhead valves allow oil down the guides. The guides in a flat head would have to be very worn to present an oil consumption problem.



    I agree with your last sentence. My '36 212 had extremely worn guides to the extent that you could wobble the valve head several millimetres laterally, with compression way down from 100-110lbs to 35-65lbs. Yet, it hardly used any oil!! So it would have to be the oil rings.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    37.... are the plugs fouling or just getting wet with oil? or are they sooting up which could be a rich fuel mixture? I would follow Ken's advice and then just drive the car because once you open up the engine it can get expensive real fast. Oil is cheap.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    All good shop talk, thanks guys. Here's the deal, When I got this thing the first thng I did was pull the pan and look at the bearings. They looked like they had never been run,NONE, looked like new. Clearance checked out perfect., yet the pan itself had not been cleaned of all the sludge,that tells us somebody had done a very poor attempt at an overhaul. Compression is uniform at 110 to 120, very little blowby from the vent tubes. WIth this said it is likely the guy maybe did'nt even hone the cylinders, much less check the valve guides, but with the good compression did put in new rings. Then this question, could it have the good compresion and oil rings not seated yet cause it to use too much oil by getting past them, upper rings not designed to control oil ? Not just a little, too much to be acceptable. Useing electric fuel pump,mechanical removed and blocked off. Exhaust has the blueish color of oil and not the darker grey/black of over rich fueling, plugs get oil soaked, ignition is in top shape so no missfireing problem. As for seals I'm gonna accept the forget it fella answers. To tear it down without a complete redo is not a good thing to do, yeah $$$$. Next best thing is load up a couple cases of oil and go for a LOOONG drive to see if it will settle down some, whatcha all think ? BUD
  • terraplane8
    terraplane8 Senior Contributor
    It won't take much to whip the head and pan off and get the pistons out. Then you can have a good look at exactly what is going on. For example Geoff Clark is presently going over my recently purchased '36 LWB twin sidemount H8 and heard a squeaking sound from the bores when he was turning the engine over during a valve job. It turned out that someone had fitted chrome compression rings that hadn't seated, glazing the bores instead, so he popped the pistons out and found a couple of broken rings, one of them an oil ring. He also found that the rings fitted were too narrow front to back and a further reason for not sealing well. Now he has fitted a new set of stock cast-iron rings and we hope all will be well. It's due to be fired up over the next couple of days hopefully.



    So that goes to show that you can only know for sure what is wrong by inspecting the parts closely. I reckon it's worth it to get to the bottom of the problem and get the engine running perfectly. Nothing worse than a smoky exhaust except a bad knock! Which reminds me my '33 ET8 has a $$$$$$ fully rebuilt, rebored engine done by the previous owner, has now gone about 1,000 miles and has exhaust smoke!!! I'm betting it has a ring problem as well so I'll have to get the pistons out and see what has been done wrong and correct it.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    terraplane8 wrote:
    It won't take much to whip the head and pan off and get the pistons out. Then you can have a good look at exactly what is going on. For example Geoff Clark is presently going over my recently purchased '36 LWB twin sidemount H8 and heard a squeaking sound from the bores when he was turning the engine over during a valve job. It turned out that someone had fitted chrome compression rings that hadn't seated, glazing the bores instead, so he popped the pistons out and found a couple of broken rings, one of them an oil ring. He also found that the rings fitted were too narrow front to back and a further reason for not sealing well. Now he has fitted a new set of stock cast-iron rings and we hope all will be well. It's due to be fired up over the next couple of days hopefully.



    So that goes to show that you can only know for sure what is wrong by inspecting the parts closely. I reckon it's worth it to get to the bottom of the problem and get the engine running perfectly. Nothing worse than a smoky exhaust except a bad knock! Which reminds me my '33 ET8 has a $$$$$$ fully rebuilt, rebored engine done by the previous owner, has now gone about 1,000 miles and has exhaust smoke!!! I'm betting it has a ring problem as well so I'll have to get the pistons out and see what has been done wrong and correct it.



    You are right of course but I know myself, if I open that thing up it won't go back together untill EVERYTHING is like new and it's not really that bad, I drive it often on real short runs. I don't think it was ever fired up after being worked on before I got it, [ had bad starter/gen/junk radiator/fuel pump/tank full of crap/junk carb/no wireing }the guy passed away. Gonna load up the oil and see how quick I can put a thousand or so miles on it . Thanks to everyone. BUD
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Bud it could be that if the rings were recently replaced they haven't fully seated to the cylinder yet so running it more could clear up the problem especially if they are chrome rings. Geoff shared a quick solution to this problem with me and that is to pour a mixture of kerosene and brass polish down the carb while its idling. This will provide some abrasive to scuff the cylinder wall and rings and allow them to reseat to each other...might be worth a try....good luck.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Jimalberta wrote:
    Bud it could be that if the rings were recently replaced they haven't fully seated to the cylinder yet so running it more could clear up the problem especially if they are chrome rings. Geoff shared a quick solution to this problem with me and that is to pour a mixture of kerosene and brass polish down the carb while its idling. This will provide some abrasive to scuff the cylinder wall and rings and allow them to reseat to each other...might be worth a try....good luck.
    I hate to have to admit it but I think I got an engine with less than a first class overhaul done on it. I think what you say is probably the real situation. We used to toss hand fulls of Comet in the intake of diesels to help seat new rings before parts got as good as they are now but they have a lot more lube from the fuel. IF Geoff says DO IT that's good enough for me ! Might be a good idea to change oil right after doing this if there's much blowby. Thanks JIM
    BUD
  • junkcarfann
    junkcarfann Expert Adviser
    Just for the record, I do not think that flathead engines use valve seals...could be wrong, but valve seals are for OHV engines so the oil does not seep down by gravity and suction.
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