Get it Re-Done!

rambos_ride

The 49 is down on the ground with wheels on the first time in 9 months!



The 1st picture shows the new rubber motor mounts installed and I re-checked my angles (5-6 degrees tilt from centerline of car - perfect!) my only issue is the new pads are higher making the distributor cap barely hit the firewall if you turn it - so I will have to radius a small cut on the C-Channel Re-inforcement on the midline of the firewall - If I moved everything forward 1/8" It would clear - Forget It! I'm not cutting and re-welding and re-fitting the engine and trans again! I'll do the radius nice and you won't even notice!

I'm pretty happy that I got a GM 454 to fit with the original steering (slightly modified), original suspension, no cuts to the front carrier, no major cuts in the firewall, All new mounting brackets and mods caused NO LOSS OF GROUND CLEARANCE from original AND I re-used the motor mount brackets also, the front engine mounts were actually cut from the original Hudson front motor plate.



In fact I have used only Recycled steel on this project. It's either original Hudson steel or I get it from a local recycler - it's close to buying new and way cheaper.

Rambo's getting impatient - he wants to go for ride and stick his head out the window!

The only other modification to get the engine/trans to fit was to the xmember that is just rear of the firewall. My original cut only allowed for the transmission - I would have had to run the exhaust below ruining ground clearance. I pulled the motor and trans (for the last time until it goes in for good!) and made a new wider cut. Then I took a piece of 3"x4" thick wall box steel and cut the edge off to use for the new re-inforcement.

Now I can get the exhaust tucked in and where it is supposed to be - above the original ground clearance line!



I'm inching closer to getting it to the sandblasters! I'll post these and more pictures to 49C8.Com later tonight!

[Deleted User]

Nice ride, coming along! I wanted to ask you how you are going to handle the tranny shifter. Are you going to use a floor shifter or column shifter? I have a 50 Pacemaker I'm putting a 95 vette LT1/4L60e combo in and I want a column shift. The vette guys tell me I should be able to install a longer shifter cable and run it up to a column shift. Have you already got yours planned that far ahead? Does anyone know a tilt steering column that would fit/look nice without going to the $600+ custom models?

hdsn49

I envey you. I wish I was as talented as you are. Keep up the good work and those great pictures.

rambos_ride

jsrail wrote:

Nice ride, coming along! I wanted to ask you how you are going to handle the tranny shifter. Are you going to use a floor shifter or column shifter? I have a 50 Pacemaker I'm putting a 95 vette LT1/4L60e combo in and I want a column shift. The vette guys tell me I should be able to install a longer shifter cable and run it up to a column shift. Have you already got yours planned that far ahead? Does anyone know a tilt steering column that would fit/look nice without going to the $600+ custom models?

Thanks jsrail!



I'm running a TH400 and I would prefer a floor shifter but with the bench seat in the front I don't think I have a lot of choice but to go with a column shift. My plan right now is to go with a Flaming River Tilt w/column shift no indicator.



Since the Commodore came with a chromed steering column I was thinking of using a GM Flaming River Stainless Steel 1-7/8 lower tube tilt column which is the same diameter as the original column so I should be able to use or slightly modify the original mounts.



For a steering wheel I will use either the Lecarra Mark 10 with horn ring (15") or I saw a company in CA that makes a 16" wheel that is similar styled with no horn ring - both have the 40-50's era styling. The original wheel was 17" so either should work. Of course 49 offered an 18" optional steering wheel...



Isn't that 4L60E an electronic controlled trans?



If I had an electronic controlled trans I would use the same column as above but no shifter and installed with butter-fly shift paddles ala Indy or F1 - there are aftermarket kits available now!



So - yeah looks like around 600-800.00 for everything



I already have some partial sponsorships so I may look at trying to get a sponsorship to help out with the cost...



Now if I could just get a full sponsorship for that new Barry Grant Demon 6-pack setup for my 454 that would be sweet!

rambos_ride

hdsn49 wrote:

I envey you. I wish I was as talented as you are. Keep up the good work and those great pictures.

Thanks hdsn49!

[Deleted User]

Yes, the 4L60e is electronically controlled but it uses a floor shifter in the vette (cable operated). I am told I just need to match a cable to the column and it should be able to shift. I was afraid I was going to have to go to the FR. What length shaft does it take? This may sound dumb, but why use a column with no indicator? Just cosmetic? And I mus admit I'n familiar with butter-fly shift paddles? I guess I'll have to look them up on the web.



When you find a sponsorship, let me know how you did it! :-) My wife is already beginning to frown at my expenditures! And wondering when I will finish the house remodeling!



Again....the 454 will be sweet!



Jay

[Deleted User]

Geez!! The damn mouse keeps jumping letters all over the place! Pls. excuse the misspelling!

rambos_ride

jsrail wrote:

Yes, the 4L60e is electronically controlled but it uses a floor shifter in the vette (cable operated). I am told I just need to match a cable to the column and it should be able to shift. I was afraid I was going to have to go to the FR. What length shaft does it take? This may sound dumb, but why use a column with no indicator? Just cosmetic? And I mus admit I'n familiar with butter-fly shift paddles? I guess I'll have to look them up on the web.



When you find a sponsorship, let me know how you did it! :-) My wife is already beginning to frown at my expenditures! And wondering when I will finish the house remodeling!



Again....the 454 will be sweet!



Jay

FR makes several sizes lengths. I haven't taken final measurements - are you keeping the original steering?



Yeah - actually I may need the indicator on the column - unless there is some way to make the old TH400 work with an electronic shift indicator (doubt it)



The butter-fly paddles are just like what indy cars or forumla one cars use - I even have some on my Thrustmaster PC Game Steering Wheel - they mount just behind the wheel so are right at your fingertips and they don't stick out like a sore thumb like a column shifter! Just go down to your local Computer City or what is close and check out the PC version - I just think they would be cool in a street car!



Sponsorships always come with a price - you have to advertise for them for a set period of time, usually 1 year, and show up at a few regional car shows during that time it also means putting a sticker on each side of your car. Works for me and the immediate plans for the car but sponsorships are not for everyone! Full sponsorships can be even more demanding of time and apperance for the car so I'll stay away from those for now.

[Deleted User]

Rambos:



I looked on the FR website as well as the ididit site. Any preference? I didn't see an adapter for a cable shift on ididit's site as FR does make one (which I would need). FR says they use a 2" shaft, but you mention a 1 7/8 original shaft size in the commodore (I assume same as the pacemaker). Did you plan on drilling out 1/8" from the column bracket?



And I see FR has a neutral safety switch add-on. Not sure if I will need to deal with that. Thats half the fun, trying to figure things out!



Thanks again for your suggestions,



Jay



P.S. Where are you located? We have friends in Bellvue, WA

[Deleted User]

Nope, I putting in a Fat Man's subframe w/ the Mustang II hub-to-hub and power rack & pinion. But it would be nice to fit the original column hanger on the dash so it doesn't look like a hack job!

rambos_ride

jsrail wrote:

Rambos:



I looked on the FR website as well as the ididit site. Any preference? I didn't see an adapter for a cable shift on ididit's site as FR does make one (which I would need). FR says they use a 2" shaft, but you mention a 1 7/8 original shaft size in the commodore (I assume same as the pacemaker). Did you plan on drilling out 1/8" from the column bracket?



And I see FR has a neutral safety switch add-on. Not sure if I will need to deal with that. Thats half the fun, trying to figure things out!



Thanks again for your suggestions,



Jay



P.S. Where are you located? We have friends in Bellvue, WA

I thought I was wrong once but I was mistaken...



Yeah - sorry the original Hudson column OD was 1 3/4 not 1 7/8 - FR floor shift columns come in 2" and 1-3/4 and that's the one I was thinking of - the column shift ones are 2" OD bummer Oh well - I'll just machine the original mount or have fabricate something that looks like the original mount then - has to be easier than the trunk pan!



If you're going with Fat sub frame - I would ask them if they know what others have used for their steering columns since they must sell a couple of those Hudson kits a year.



PS I'm in Kirkland

[Deleted User]

jsrail,



If I were you I'd save the money on the FatMan's outfit, and use the original front end. Clip and all. There are some rack and pinion, center point conversions for the Hudson made by some HET members. A quick search on this forum will find the contact info for the steering fabricators. Disc brake conversions for the original Hudson spindles - also with information on the forum.



I seriously doubt the Mustang II front end is as substantial or bump steer correct as the Hudson (regardless of what Fat Man says, but I think his are more correct than some others I've looked at). I looked into it - the Hudson is dang near perfect. Beware modifying your centerlink by changing its location, this disrupts the geometry and will gain you some ill handling.



I actually mocked up a Chrysler Concorde power rack (center take off rack) to the Hudson front end with an original 308 - you can use the Hudson tie rods and link the center to the power rack with heim joints. I never got around to figuring out the steering column situation because I wanted to use and original Hudson column and it was going to be involved to say the least. I'm sure with the aftermarket columns that would be an easier task.



I'm leaning more towards the traditional end of the rodding spectrum - and the Hudson manual system is hard to beat by anybody's standard in that respect. I dropped the power rack and pinion system, but would definately use it in a more cushy street rod.



Mark

rambos_ride

Sometimes I think folks get too caught up with the whole power steering thing. Early stepdowns were made specifically for manual steering with 20.4 to 1 ratio and a 20ft turning radius for 124" wheelbase car - not bad. Its nothing close to driving a car with power steering and the power goes out or doesn't work - thats a bitch because its not geared correctly for manual steering.



The only advantage I can see with the Fat setup is you can put air ride (another 1000.00)



I would like to go with the LaBuds disc brake conversion for my 49 that is sweet! I just don't have enough extra cash right now to find out how much they are!

[Deleted User]

The LaBud's outfit is sweet - I don't think I've ever read anything negative about it, all satisfied customers. That's a tough record to beat in this day and age.



I recently rebuilt all the brakes on the '49, the 2.250" wide shoes for the fronts of Hornet/Super Wasp/Super Six/Commodore - no longer available. I had to have the original shoes relined. It wasn't cheap, but I got a stellar job done by an older craftsman who has done that type work for 50 years. He took one look at the shoe and said "Its a Hudson, don't use the narrow replacements on the front - ever!"



Turns out he was a former Hudson owner, several of them in fact. Did my shoes right, with authentic rivets - but it wasn't cheap.



By the time I did all the work myself and bought the parts - the LaBud option didn't seem so expensive. When the Wasp' brakes get to needing serviced, it will likely inherit the '49's front brakes - and the '49 will get the LaBud discs (cuz I hope its just a shade faster!).



Mark

[Deleted User]

Thanks guys, but the Fat Man is being built now and already paid for. I appreciate the suggestions though. I thought the Fat Man would get me as low as possible, maybe not, but again the cash is sent! Since I haven't already spent any money on the rear, any suggestions on lowering it and will the stock hold up to a vette 5.7LT1?



Jay

rambos_ride

jsrail wrote:

Thanks guys, but the Fat Man is being built now and already paid for. I appreciate the suggestions though. I thought the Fat Man would get me as low as possible, maybe not, but again the cash is sent! Since I haven't already spent any money on the rear, any suggestions on lowering it and will the stock hold up to a vette 5.7LT1?



Jay

If you want low the Fat Man setup is probably your best option.



I've been looking into a Ford 8.8 out of a 98 or newer explorer, 31 spline axles - will have to be narrowed a bit - but there is a ton of those diffs out there pretty cheap with or without disks.



I plan on leaving the original rear suspension (splayed leafs) in mine - how crazy did you want to get with it?

[Deleted User]

The rear end is pretty simple to slam. Use spacer blocks between the axle tube and the leaf stack. You can lower it a good 2" pretty cheap and easy. The existing U-bolts are long enough already, but you'll need to replace the jam nut situation with some ny-lock or other self locking nut on the bottom of the u-bolt.



Be careful how low you go on the rear, especially if you are going to run a tire wider than 7.5" - changing tires/rims will get really difficult (as in uncoupling a spring hanger to get them off/on).



If you are going to be doing any drag racing or other "severe usage" - I'd leave them in the stock position. The lowering blocks give the axle tube a greater leverage against the springs and you can get some radical "spring wrap" going on.



I actually saw a NOS set of lowering blocks on e-bay not long ago specificly listed for the stepdown Hudson. So, its out there!



Mark

[Deleted User]

Well, I want it low and level on the ground. I heard someone (maybe here on one of the forums) had Currie build a Ford 9" for a I think a '49, but that's a bit over my budget right now. I think I will stay with the lowering blocks for now. Mark, having built rock crawlers, I'm familiar with "spring wrap" and hope to stay away from it. Good point on the tire change, forgot about that one with fender style, etc. I don't care to have any wide tires, you won't see much of them anyway, but you suggest not going wider than 7.5"? Anyone know what rear end Hudson used? I heard I should have an older style Dana 44. I'm hoping it will hold up to my V8, some have said it should. I'm not a crazy driver these days, but do like to get into the pedal now and then!



Jay

rambos_ride

jsrail wrote:

Well, I want it low and level on the ground. I heard someone (maybe here on one of the forums) had Currie build a Ford 9" for a I think a '49, but that's a bit over my budget right now. I think I will stay with the lowering blocks for now. Mark, having built rock crawlers, I'm familiar with "spring wrap" and hope to stay away from it. Good point on the tire change, forgot about that one with fender style, etc. I don't care to have any wide tires, you won't see much of them anyway, but you suggest not going wider than 7.5"? Anyone know what rear end Hudson used? I heard I should have an older style Dana 44. I'm hoping it will hold up to my V8, some have said it should. I'm not a crazy driver these days, but do like to get into the pedal now and then!



Jay

When I posted on the forum about whether the rear axel would hold up to a late model v8 many people told me the early stepdown rear-ends are weak and had problems holding out even against the 6-8 cylinder stockers.



I think if you babied it there is no reason it wouldn't hold up for a while - but you have to remember the age of the car, who knows the mileage, and the fact (I would think) that the metallurgical properties of the steel just aren't comparable to late model axels available today.



The rear axel housing on the stepdown is something like 56-57" from face to face - pretty narrow - you'd be hard pressed to find any rear axel stock that would fit without some modifications.



A ford 9" will work just fine - narrowed - and has been the 'gold' standard for hot-rods and Hudson swaps for a long time - you will pay more money for one than a newer Ford 8.8



You didn't mention wheels - I'm using my original rims with a 235x75R15 which is the widest tire you can mount on a stock rim - and I'm expecting it to be a squeeze to get them up in there with the studs sticking out of the axel end.

Unknown

Greetings from Colorado!



What a great thread! I am "listening and learning".



Here is what may be a simple question, but I have yet to see a difinitive answer. I am looking for "modern" steel rims to fit on my '51 Hornet. I would prefer to be able to use Baby Moon hubcaps and trim rings. I plan on running 215 75 15 tires.



With that in mind, I picked up 5 early Ford rims. Correct bolt pattern, just have to drill for the alignment stud. The problem comes with the center hole. On the Ford rims, the center hole is "flanged" [read pressed with a lip] and is 1/8" too small to allow the back of the rim to seat against the drum. The original center hole on the Hudson rim is a nice and clean hole.



Wheel spacers came to mind, but then the wheel bolts are too short. It's staring to get complicated now. Can anyone recommend a steel wheel that can be painted, accept a baby moon hubcap and mounts directly to the Hornet hub without modification/adapters?



Thanks.



George T.

rambos_ride

George T. wrote:

Greetings from Colorado!



What a great thread! I am "listening and learning".



Here is what may be a simple question, but I have yet to see a difinitive answer. I am looking for "modern" steel rims to fit on my '51 Hornet. I would prefer to be able to use Baby Moon hubcaps and trim rings. I plan on running 215 75 15 tires.



With that in mind, I picked up 5 early Ford rims. Correct bolt pattern, just have to drill for the alignment stud. The problem comes with the center hole. On the Ford rims, the center hole is "flanged" [read pressed with a lip] and is 1/8" too small to allow the back of the rim to seat against the drum. The original center hole on the Hudson rim is a nice and clean hole.



Wheel spacers came to mind, but then the wheel bolts are too short. It's staring to get complicated now. Can anyone recommend a steel wheel that can be painted, accept a baby moon hubcap and mounts directly to the Hornet hub without modification/adapters?



Thanks.



George T.

I don't know how much $$ you are out so far but I would run them by a machine shop - maybe even a tire shop - and see how much they want to have them trim out the hole to fit - if you are not so inclined to want to try yourself.



The lug nuts and corresponding holes on the wheel will keep it in correct running alignment.



Are your original steel wheels in bad shape or do you have some concerns about running them?

Unknown

Yep, the original wheels are in pretty sad shape. They sat 33 years with periods of immersion in water. As for the Ford wheels, I had thought about having the centers turned, but was hoping for something a little less labor intensive. It would be nice to be able to find "off of the shelf" wheels if I needed to replace one down the road. I do have access to a machine shop, although it has been 30 years since I ran a lathe!



Did I see a photo on your website of the rear axle of your car? I thought that I saw studs on the drums instead of lug bolts. It might have been another site, I've viewed quite a few lately. Is switching to studs an option/feasible?



George T.

[Deleted User]

Rear ends:

The '53 and '54s had Dana 44 rear differentials. I know the reputation Ford 9" rears have, but if you check the Mopar muscle cars, they had a Dana 44 - 'nuff said on that matter. If you have any experiance rock crawling, the Dana 44 differential never breaks, but the axle tubes flex under those conditions and does damage to your spiders/locker/cage bearings (so does the Ford!). I like the Dana rear end, endless rear ratio choices and gearsets are plentious and interchangeable with the Hudson Dana.



I'm not completely sure, but I'm thinking that an enterprizing person could also eliminate the keyed axles in the Hudson Dana in favor of a flanged axle. There are axle kits out there that are "c-clip eliminators". Hudsons did not have c-clips, but the other, later applications of the Dana did. The c-clip eliminator kits use a trapped roller bearing on the axle that has a similiar bolt pattern and bearing retainer to the keyed axle of the Hudson. Food for thought. I've got too much on my plate right now to exploit that - but something I will look into further as my car progresses. Its not out of the realm of possibility to retain the Hudson rear drum brakes, with a flanged axle.



Speaking of Mopar rear ends and similarity to the Hudson. Mopar rims fit the Hudson. In fact, the Heavy Duty police rims are 7 inches wide and will accomodate the widest tire you want to wriggle in and out of the rear fender wells. Any rear wheel drive, 5 lug mopar will fit up to the mid 80's. There is your "off the shelf" rim fitment. The only thing that is in the way is the alignment pin sticking out of the hub. You can either drill an alignment hole in the mopar steel rim, or cut the pin off. Be careful not to shave the pin off flush with the drum, because its a drum retaining rivet also.



I've got a set of the wide Mopar police rims, I like them with the exception of not being able to use the original hubcaps (no spring retainers). The upside is, you could buy aftermarket baby moons etc and put K-gap stickers on them (nice red triangle). The upside of the Mopar fitment is that you won't have to get that "DuH" look from anybody when trying to order a set of aftermarket wheels for a Hudson like American Racing etc. Just order them for a '69 Road Runner - and there ya go!



My cousin is a Mopar fan. While I was working on the Wasp's brakes a year ago, he exhausted himself trying all his mopar rim variations on the Wasp. He even looked under the backend and saw the nice Dana hanging down. He came around and sat next to me (the Wasp was sitting in front of his '68 Road Runner) and said, " I wish I had a Hudson too!"



Mark

rambos_ride

Good information Mark - thanks



Do you have those 7" on the front? Do you have any rubbing problems?

rambos_ride

George T. wrote:

Yep, the original wheels are in pretty sad shape. They sat 33 years with periods of immersion in water. As for the Ford wheels, I had thought about having the centers turned, but was hoping for something a little less labor intensive. It would be nice to be able to find "off of the shelf" wheels if I needed to replace one down the road. I do have access to a machine shop, although it has been 30 years since I ran a lathe!



Did I see a photo on your website of the rear axle of your car? I thought that I saw studs on the drums instead of lug bolts. It might have been another site, I've viewed quite a few lately. Is switching to studs an option/feasible?



George T.

I still have the orignal rear axel in mine - the only thing about wheel studs is having enough clearance to get the wheel on and off over the top of the studs in that nicely cramped rear wheel well section - and if your newer axel hasn't been narrowed to accomdate the difference or is wider than the original by even a little bit - that will make it even more difficult.

[Deleted User]

rambos_ride wrote:

Good information Mark - thanks



Do you have those 7" on the front? Do you have any rubbing problems?

I don't have any problems with them, plenty of clearance with 225/15 tires on them, which is skinny on the 7" rim. I'm now running the 225/15 tire on the stock rims, still plenty of clearance, but the tire is the converse - kinda wide for the stock rims. That info is regarding the Wasp at stock ride height.



The '49 is about 1.5 inches lower (due to some tired springs) and I intend to correctly fit the right tire to the 7" rim and see how that goes. I expect the '49 to inherit the Mopar rims and I'm waiting on buying new tires till I get further along. I really don't know where the finished ride height will be on that car just yet. I'm more concerned with lining out the drivetrain, then I'll get around to the suspension.



Mark.

[Deleted User]

use the 9 inch ford go to the junk yard get rear disc off of 81 seville cut the brackets to fit the 9 inch these seville brakes come with emergency brake. can fill holes on disc and have them redrilled for whatever. don't put any lower blocks this messes up traction instead try taking out one of the leafs of the spring. just an opinion

[Deleted User]

i thought we used chrysler rims on hudson? why do you need alignment hole screw a stud in one of the holes put in other bolts take stud out put in bolt. how often do we change tires?

[Deleted User]

I'd be skeptical of the flaming river column,they have a nylon bushing in the base of the column that heats up from engine heat and seizes the steering shaft/you work on it for awhile, it cools off, you believe it is fixed only to find that whenever you drive it again long enough to "heat things up" it seizes the shaft again, flaming river offers no assistance what so ever in helping their dealers. Ididit is a fine product, and very reliable.

[Deleted User]

Bill, thanks for the info. But I think there column shift shaft is 2 1/2" wide. I'm not sure how thats going to be fitting thru the original steering column bracket, which I hear is 1 3/4".

Unknown

Mark,



Thanks for the information! That's what I was looking for. I'll give my wheel supplier a holler and have him round a set up.



Dan,



Thanks for the thought about getting the wheels past the studs. Only having pulled wheels a couple of times, it hasn't sunk in about the clearance issue. I have the same issue with my 1951 Spartan Royal Mansion travel trailer. I have to pull the skirts and air down the tires to get the tires out of the wheel well.



George T.