rear wheel bearing replacement

[Deleted User]

I've had my 1950 Pacemaker for thirty years and in all that time the car has had a thrum-thrum sound (that's the best way I can explain it) from the drivetrain that is related to car speed. A number of years ago one Hudson member who was known for his mechanical knowledge rode with me and listened to the sound and suggested I replace the rear wheel bearings. I never got to it and the sound hasn't seemed to get any louder, but as I soon want to take a several hour trip, I'm wondering if I should take this occasion to replace them.

I've spoken to the mechanic who will do the work and he has no information as to how the Hudson rear end is built. Do the axle shafts remove from the housing with the bearings attached, or just how is the job done? Can someone give me details that I can pass on to him so that he will know how to go about the job?

I appreciate any help you folks can give me. Hudsonly, middletom

Jon B

If your bearings had been failing thirty years ago, believe me, you would have known it by now! My wild guess is the problem may lie within the differential.



It's no biggie to remove the bearings. They are press-fit on the outer end of the tapered axle. When you learn the price of a new bearing you may decide to simply grease and replace them, though!



Just pull the brake drum (Paul Schuster has an excellent illustrated how-to on this, in our Hudson Photo Album Site), remove the four nuts (holding the bearing cap on, and you can yank the axle outward. (Be careful...that axle key is SHARP! Use gloves!). I would assume that some careful tapping will pop the bearing off.



Before you go through all this, though, you might want to just get the car up on a lift, with someone at the wheel, and run it with someone underneath, listening for the noise. Better to isolate it, than to start replacing everying from the transmission back only to find (for example) that it was an imperfection in one on the tires.

Park_W

That's good advice, Jon. Some years ago, not long after I got our Hornet, it developed a driveline vibration and I went though everything I thought could have created it, to no avail. Figured I might have to just live with it. A couple of months later I noticed the pinion shaft seal was leaking, so set up to change it. When I went to remove the u-joint yoke from the shaft, I noted the yoke and shaft were somewhat loose. The previous owner evidently had the pinion nut off for some reason and didn't get it tightened properly. Tightening it stopped the seal leak ... and the vibration. Oh well, at least I by then had a beautifully balanced driveshaft and three new u-joints!

Unknown

If this noise has been there for thirty years and getting no worse doubt very much if it is the rear wheel bearings. They should have been cleaned and repacked several times in this many years. These bearings are very hard to find and very pricey. They have a tapered bore and no one makes them any more. There are still a few NOS out there. Les P. in Oz posted a while back that he had a few. The bearing comes out on the axle shaft. Have to pull the rear hubs remove the 4 nuts holding the bearing and seal retainer on, remove it and pull the axle. clean and inspect the bearings and if good hand pack with grease and install. You would be ahead to get a shop manual. Find them on ebay or the club store has reprints.

[Deleted User]

Thank you all for your help. Jon, I waited until I replaced the old tires in the event that they were the cause of this noise, but the sound is just the same as before. It hadn't occurred to me that thirty years and twenty thousand miles would certainly be too much for bearings that were already making noise. I will have them checked and regreased and also check out the driveshaft bearings and u-joints. I was unaware that the bearings are not available anymore other than NOS.

What should I have the mechanic check in the differential? I suppose he would know, but in case there is something specific about the Hudson ones, any suggestions?

Again, thank you, everyone. middletom

ESSX28-1

ski4life65 (on this forum) recently had some of these bearings on eBay. Maybe they are still for sale.

stbryson

Jon B wrote:

If your bearings had been failing thirty years ago, believe me, you would have known it by now! My wild guess is the problem may lie within the differential.



It's no biggie to remove the bearings. They are press-fit on the outer end of the tapered axle. When you learn the price of a new bearing you may decide to simply grease and replace them, though!



Just pull the brake drum (Paul Schuster has an excellent illustrated how-to on this, in our Hudson Photo Album Site), remove the four nuts (holding the bearing cap on, and you can yank the axle outward. (Be careful...that axle key is SHARP! Use gloves!). I would assume that some careful tapping will pop the bearing off.



Before you go through all this, though, you might want to just get the car up on a lift, with someone at the wheel, and run it with someone underneath, listening for the noise. Better to isolate it, than to start replacing everying from the transmission back only to find (for example) that it was an imperfection in one on the tires.

Hello Jon B,



Do you have a link for the Hudson Photo Album site?



Thank you, and take care,



Steve Bryson

RL Chilton

middletom wrote:

Thank you all for your help. Jon, I waited until I replaced the old tires in the event that they were the cause of this noise, but the sound is just the same as before. It hadn't occurred to me that thirty years and twenty thousand miles would certainly be too much for bearings that were already making noise. I will have them checked and regreased and also check out the driveshaft bearings and u-joints. I was unaware that the bearings are not available anymore other than NOS.

What should I have the mechanic check in the differential? I suppose he would know, but in case there is something specific about the Hudson ones, any suggestions?

Again, thank you, everyone. middletom

As far as checking your rear-end, there needs to be a certain amount of lash between the gears and off of the top of my head, I don't know what Hudson engineers recommends. Usually, if too tight, the rear end will "howl", rather than make a "thrum-thrum" sound, with the howl increasing in pitch as the rear-end moves faster (i.e., car goes faster). I would check this last, after the other checks you are already planning.

Jon B

Steve, the Photo Album is at http://hudsonpix.multiply.com/ . Incidentally, this has a link at our new H-E-T website, at http://www.hetclub.org/index.htm .



Paul Schuster's illustrated brake drum-pulling "how-to" is at http://hudsonpix.multiply.com/photos/album/52/REAR_WHEEL_PULLER

[Deleted User]

By the way, can that drum puller/dog bone arrangement be readily purchased at an auto parts store? If so, what brand of manufacture is the one illustrated in the photos?

mars55

1049superg wrote:

By the way, can that drum puller/dog bone arrangement be readily purchased at an auto parts store? If so, what brand of manufacture is the one illustrated in the photos?

This thread lists a couple of suppliers for drum pullers. You can also get them from such companies as Snap-On. They also appear on ebay used.



http://www.classiccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11290

[Deleted User]

I spoke today with the mechanic who works on my car, and he said that though he is no expert on Hudsons, he is surprised that the rear bearings need to be hand packed with grease raher than being lubed by the differential lubricant. He has worked on some other cars dating from the early fifties and they were lubed from the diff. He is curious that the rear bearings need regular packing the way front ones commonly are. He is willing to do it for me but wants to spare me expense if it is not truly necessary. As I wrote before, I've had the car for twenty thousand miles and don't know when the bearings were packed before that. How often do they need repacking? Also, I just had the car lubed, including the driveshaft bearings, but I realize that won't cure anything if the fault is there.

middletom

P.S. You've probably come to realize that I'm not someone with a great deal of mechanical knowledge.

Unknown

middletom wrote:

I spoke today with the mechanic who works on my car, and he said that though he is no expert on Hudsons, he is surprised that the rear bearings need to be hand packed with grease raher than being lubed by the differential lubricant. He has worked on some other cars dating from the early fifties and they were lubed from the diff. He is curious that the rear bearings need regular packing the way front ones commonly are. He is willing to do it for me but wants to spare me expense if it is not truly necessary. As I wrote before, I've had the car for twenty thousand miles and don't know when the bearings were packed before that. How often do they need repacking? Also, I just had the car lubed, including the driveshaft bearings, but I realize that won't cure anything if the fault is there.

middletom

P.S. You've probably come to realize that I'm not someone with a great deal of mechanical knowledge.

Every one has their own notion. Mine is so to inspect the bearings and have new grease and be clean. I do this when doing brake work most of the time. The reason for packing is that there is a seal between the bearing and the differential to keep the diff. grease from the bearing. This inner seal like the taper bore bearing is also very hard to find. You can find the outer seal at a parts store but dont go rushing in and ask for the rear wheel seals for a 51 Hudson. If you need seals remove the old one clean it good and lay it on the counter and tell the clerk you need a seal that will work in place of it. In the axle houseing at the bearings there is a 1/8 inch pipe plug you can remove and screw a grease fitting in and use a gun to grease the bearing but as I said we have our own notions. Seen the outer seals blown to many times by doing this

Unknown

middletom,

the rear axle bearings on the Hudson rear-ends ARE NOT lubricated by the differential lubricant, that is why there is a threaded hole on top of the axle housing on each side, just in from the flange on the outside of the axle tube. Get under your car and locate these, remove the threaded plug, install a grease zerk and lube each axle bearing with your grease gun, then re-install the threaded plug in each hole.



Don't rely on differential lube to get to the outside end of that axle housing because there's an inner axle seal in the housing that prevents any gear lube from reaching the outer axle bearing. good-luck with your road trip ! !



'47HUD

minnesota

[Deleted User]

Once again, I want to thank all of you for your help. I'll tell the mechanic how it should be done and even if that doesn't take care of the sound, as I feel it won't, I'll know the bearings have been lubed.

middletom

Geoff

Don't over-do that greasing either, or you will likley blow grease out past the outer seal onto the brake area. Bes temthod is to jack the car up, and get someone to slowly turn the wheel while you pumpup to four squirts of grease in. The grease will go directly into the rollers. However, as others have said, it really would be best to remove the axles, wash the bearings thoroughly, and re-pack with new lubricant. And I don't mean just wipe the grease over the bearing, but to physically pack it in between the rollers until it comes out the other side.

Geoff.

[Deleted User]

This past week, I took the car to the mechanic to check things over before we go off to Vermont. They removed the plugs from the axle (the plugs are on the rear side of the axle, not on top) and pulled out a little of the grease to check it, then put in two squirts from the grease gun. They and I also checked the u-joints and bearing in the drive shaft and the play in the differential. All seemed fine. While the car was on the lift, I was idly turning the rear wheels, first the left, which turned smoothly as it should, but the right one I found turned easily with one hand about one third of the circle, then became harder to turn as it went around, and at about the half way mark it turned stiffly enough that I had to use two hands to turn it, then after it passed that point, it gradually became easier to turn. I hope I'm explaining this clearly enough to make sense. I mentioned it to the mechanic and he suggested that the brake drum may be slightly warped. I asked if that might be the cause of the noise I've heard all these years and he said he didn't think so, but I have to wonder. The rythym of the sound could correspond to the tightening and loosening of that wheel as it turns. Does any one of you have any thoughts on that? If that is the cause of the sound, then I don't have to worry about anything going bad on the trip, but maybe I'll get another brake drum for that wheel and see if that cures the sound.

middletom

Geoff

Could also be a bad U-joint.

RL Chilton

You certainly won't hurt anything by turning the drum (and it might solve your problem). If they haven't been turned before, I think (?) you can go .030.



As a sidenote, most modern brake drum turning lathes cannot fit the rear drums onto their machine and you need a shop that has an older machine to handle the tapered cylinder.