OD electricals T-86 / R10
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Where can I find such things as:
Kickdown switch
OD relay
Lockout switch
Solenoid
Is there a source for new parts, or a good interchange from another make?
Update on the '49.
I was going to install a T-5 transmission, that being the only "new school" item on the car with the exception of some possible newer carbureation options.
The more I've played with the OD, I've fallen in love with it. So, I've been researching that family of transmissions. I want a floor shifter for the "retro-rod", but the Hurst Indy shifters get really complicated with alot of monkey motion to get around the OD solenoid. Its possible, but its not your Sunday evening "bolt on" arrangement at all.
The answer came yesterday while working with a good friend on the job. He used to "mud bog" Jeeps, and when I mentioned the Borg Warner 3 speed, he perked up and started to get technofied.
As it turns out, the T-86's used in Jeeps are the same basic tranny with a top shifter rather than the side. The input shafts and output (obviously tailored for a transfer case) are different, but the internals are the same with some gear ratio differences. In addition, a T-90 BW 3 speed shares shifting geometry with the T-86, as well as some other internals which I haven't had the chance to survey.
If you are running a Hudson T-86, 2 lever tranny. The Jeep T-86 and T-90 top shifter is a drop in as long as you remove the side shifting collar yokes and plug the side shifter holes. The top cap is installed atop the transmission where the Hudson pressed steel cover is, attached with six bolts.
The obstacle to the OD tranny is the necessary movement of the lockout rod when going into reverse. The rod MUST be moved rearward or you will lock up the plantary unit against the freewheeling clutch unit and do ALOT of damage while trying to back up. Being as I want to use a OD tranny - this is the obstacle I have to hurdle to use a topshifter. It is possible, but with some modification. You could skip the lockout rod/shifter yoke movement by simply pulling out the OD cable when going into reverse, that would solve the problem. However, forget that once when backing up or let someone else drive your car without knowing - and you've got a trashed transmission.
It may be argued that the modification is on the scale (if not more) of installing a Hurst Indy shifter. But, the throw length of the Jeep shifter is really SHORT, its a remarkably tight shift pattern given its vintage - and dang substantial! The shift forks are very heavy duty compared to the side shifting fork and paddle for 1st/reverse.
I'm figuring on how to get this to work. Its definately not as involved as the T-5 swap, and I'll be depending on the good ol' cork clutch to protect the little T-86.
Some pictures clipped off the internet of a T-90 Jeep tranny and top shifter.
Mark
Kickdown switch
OD relay
Lockout switch
Solenoid
Is there a source for new parts, or a good interchange from another make?
Update on the '49.
I was going to install a T-5 transmission, that being the only "new school" item on the car with the exception of some possible newer carbureation options.
The more I've played with the OD, I've fallen in love with it. So, I've been researching that family of transmissions. I want a floor shifter for the "retro-rod", but the Hurst Indy shifters get really complicated with alot of monkey motion to get around the OD solenoid. Its possible, but its not your Sunday evening "bolt on" arrangement at all.
The answer came yesterday while working with a good friend on the job. He used to "mud bog" Jeeps, and when I mentioned the Borg Warner 3 speed, he perked up and started to get technofied.
As it turns out, the T-86's used in Jeeps are the same basic tranny with a top shifter rather than the side. The input shafts and output (obviously tailored for a transfer case) are different, but the internals are the same with some gear ratio differences. In addition, a T-90 BW 3 speed shares shifting geometry with the T-86, as well as some other internals which I haven't had the chance to survey.
If you are running a Hudson T-86, 2 lever tranny. The Jeep T-86 and T-90 top shifter is a drop in as long as you remove the side shifting collar yokes and plug the side shifter holes. The top cap is installed atop the transmission where the Hudson pressed steel cover is, attached with six bolts.
The obstacle to the OD tranny is the necessary movement of the lockout rod when going into reverse. The rod MUST be moved rearward or you will lock up the plantary unit against the freewheeling clutch unit and do ALOT of damage while trying to back up. Being as I want to use a OD tranny - this is the obstacle I have to hurdle to use a topshifter. It is possible, but with some modification. You could skip the lockout rod/shifter yoke movement by simply pulling out the OD cable when going into reverse, that would solve the problem. However, forget that once when backing up or let someone else drive your car without knowing - and you've got a trashed transmission.
It may be argued that the modification is on the scale (if not more) of installing a Hurst Indy shifter. But, the throw length of the Jeep shifter is really SHORT, its a remarkably tight shift pattern given its vintage - and dang substantial! The shift forks are very heavy duty compared to the side shifting fork and paddle for 1st/reverse.
I'm figuring on how to get this to work. Its definately not as involved as the T-5 swap, and I'll be depending on the good ol' cork clutch to protect the little T-86.
Some pictures clipped off the internet of a T-90 Jeep tranny and top shifter.
Mark
0
Comments
-
You could call Al Saffrahn in Arizona, he's the Club Guru on Hudson overdrives.
I'll just bet that you'd find that most -- if not all -- of those switches interchange with any Borg-Warner overdrive transmission of your era.
Yes, the Jeep shift lever drops into the Borg-Warner (2-lever?) transmissions, which were fitted to Hudsons starting in 1952, I've heard. In fact, Carl Weber has a regular 3-speed with a floor shifter, in his 1935 Hudson convertible (someone put that in before he got it). Another shift lever candidate for transplant, is the Studebaker truck floor lever, which also used the B-W transmission.
The Jeep shift levers don't seem to be particularly hard to find; here's one that sold for just $20 a few days ago on Ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1947-JEEP-CJ2A-3-SPEED-TRANSMISSION-TOP-COVER-USED_W0QQitemZ4572781905QQcategoryZ34208QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem0 -
OK,you've got my attention. My brothers 51 Willys jeep runs a T90 behind a sbc,and
has for over 35 years. (3 or 4 motors,same tranny). I put an OD on the jeep a long
time back,but I'm sure its different cause it bolts to the back of the transfer case.
No reverse issues there,just another shift lever sticking up through the floor.(4 total).
I might be interested in a floor shift with an old 2speed electric switch on the lever.
I'll check with my jeep gurus at www.4wd.com in my hometown in Ohio.
Click vintage jeeps 41 to 7?, then underbody,then transmissions, for some
exploded views.0 -
A very reliable supplier for all your transmission parts needs is:
All Transmission Parts, Inc.
Bob Hutchins
Marketing / IT
800-237-8601
All Transmission Parts webpage
Overdrive kick down switch-Kickdown switch: NAPA OD 6284, $15.490 -
TwinH wrote:OK,you've got my attention. My brothers 51 Willys jeep runs a T90 behind a sbc,and
has for over 35 years. (3 or 4 motors,same tranny). I put an OD on the jeep a long
time back,but I'm sure its different cause it bolts to the back of the transfer case.
No reverse issues there,just another shift lever sticking up through the floor.(4 total).
I might be interested in a floor shift with an old 2speed electric switch on the lever.
I'll check with my jeep gurus at www.4wd.com in my hometown in Ohio.
Click vintage jeeps 41 to 7?, then underbody,then transmissions, for some
exploded views.
Well, there is a certain MAJOR issue in the Jeep vs. Hudson T-90 and T-86, they had 1.125" input shafts vs. the Hudson's 1.00". I have been told that the Hornet had the habit of twisting the 1.00" shaft to the point you couldn't get the clutch off the shaft, nor disengage the clutch while it was in operation (wouldn't move on the twisted splines).
The reverse lockout rod is unique to the tranny mounted OD, mainly becasue they have a "freewheeling" roller clutch. I'm not sure if the transfer case mounted OD's had the freewheeling roller clutch or not. If it didn't, then being in OD and reverse simultaneously isn't a big issue.
Two speed axle switch on the OD? Exactly what I was thinking and have been hatching out a wiring scheme to do just that. When I've thought it through a little better and done a few tests on the OD I have on the road - I'll report the findings.
Mark0 -
put a jeep top loader shifter on a 53 3 speed with no Overdrive behind a 7x 308 in a 40 super 6 coupe worked very well. removed side shifter arms and welded holes shut. never tried it on an OD, BUT should work with just a hot wire to OD solinoid with togggle switch under dash, BILL ALBRIGHTS TWIN H RANCH0
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