For John

Unknown

Name: John Lieberman
E-Mail: kaiersbrewery@earthlink.net

Who can identify a Hudson or Essex from around 1920 from a photograph ?

RL Chilton

E-mail me a copy, I'll see what I can do. If I can't, I'll post it here on the forum and we'll get an answer, I guarantee you.

ESSX28-1

Ted W wrote:

Name: John Lieberman

E-Mail: kaiersbrewery@earthlink.net



Who can identify a Hudson or Essex from around 1920 from a photograph ?

Look at "The History of Hudson" book by Don Butler (ISBN 0-87938-7). Try your local library!! This enormous photo & details archive is certainly the easiest & probably the best way.:D

[Deleted User]

Here is the picture John sent me. I'm having some trouble, but someone will get it I'm sure.





My guess is 1925, but I know there are problems with that guess. I cannot tell if it is a 2dr or 4dr. The front door opens forward not suicide which is confussing me too (not that it takes much to do that).



Todd

RL Chilton

O.k., I've been studying this for the last twenty minutes and here's my take on it:



Several distinguishing features on this car are:



1) The front bumper. Hudson did not use a bumper exactly like this. In '28 or so, the bottom bar of the bumper had a "dip" in it, but I cannot find an example of a Hudson bumper with curves in the top AND bottom bars.



2) The door is a front-hinged door. Hudson ALMOST excusively used suicide doors on closed car throughout the twenties. Exceptions are usually phaetons and touring cars. This car is obviously either a 2-dr. sedan, or a 4-dr. sedan, but unable to tell from the photo.



3) The radiator cap. Hudson did not use wings on the rad. caps from the factory, although this is something that could have been added, or replaced from another car, etc. and means little probably in the grand scheme of things.



4) The distiinct shape of the hood with the heavy line that runs down the length of both sides of the hood. This was a Hudson feature used from about '24-27 with previous models having a more rounded hood, and later models going back to a more rounded corner, but not as rounded as earlier models.



5) The very distinctive headlights. Hudson used a similar, but exact shape and style of headlight from the early 20's until '26.



6) The sun visor(s). Hudson often used these "bolt-on" sunvisors throughout the 20's. So did hundreds of other manufacturers.



7) Distinct shape and "depth" of the fenders. In '26, Hudson had a very distinct flat flange on the bottom edge of the fenders. Car in the photo does not have a vertical flange on the bottom edge of the fender. In most cars of '27, Hudson used a very smooth fender without the extra "bump" as shown in the photo, although there were exceptions.



What does all this mean? Probably very little. We all know there were dozens of custom coachbuilders that offered bodies in those days and this very well could be an example. However, custom coachbuilders were usually contracted for the very high end automobiles, which is contrary to the std. sedan in the photo.



My conclusion: Car in photo might not be a Hudson, but if it is, was a custom body made in approx. '25-26.



Hope some of the "real" experts offer their advice as well. My curiosity is certainly peaked.

Unknown

Its a 1923 Essex Coach......my Dad had one. I am pretty sure 98%.

RL Chilton

Ted W wrote:

Its a 1923 Essex Coach......my Dad had one. I am pretty sure 98%.

I thought the most interesting feature was the "regular" swinging doors. Hard to find a pic of a coach that has those.



I certainly don't doubt you, as you are 98% sure, but it sure doesn't match any picture of a '23 that I could find.

Unknown

The doors are different swinging for sure. I would not rule out custom work as stated previously.

RL Chilton

Thanks for the pic, Ted. Headlights are different, bumper is the same, though as in the old picture. radiator fins are non-esixtent in the old pic, but looks as though you are probably right.

Unknown

RL Chilton wrote:

Thanks for the pic, Ted. Headlights are different, bumper is the same, though as in the old picture. radiator fins are non-esixtent in the old pic, but looks as though you are probably right.

It could be an early 1924 model, still using carry over parts. But, I like the custom builder idea more all the time.

I know my Dad's '23 had a different radiator and headlamps than the 1923 in the photo. So, is might have just been a supplier change or "in-production" change.

Unknown

Walter Murphy's retail automotive sales career began when he opened a Simplex and Locomobile dealership in downtown Los Angeles in 1916. Four years later, he secured Lincoln's California distributorship.

Unlike the majority of other West Coast distributors, Murphy understood the California market unusually well and determined that the best way to attract new customers was by painting cars lighter colors and altering other exterior design elements.

Such updates enabled Murphy to sell Leland-era Lincolns that were at first as dowdy and unappealing to look at as they were beautifully engineered.

1920 he was a coachbuilder in his own right, creating cars that had a simple, dignified look that suited the local market perfectly and was widely admired.

In 1926 Murphy became the California Hudson and Essex distributor. He so impressed Hudson management with his specially bodied cars that he was invited to design bodies for a line of limited production 1927 Hudsons with bodies that would be built by Biddle & Smart in Massachusetts.

Although the elegant, refined cars were too expensive to market in large quantities, they were among the first to be styled by a Los Angeles-area designer and built by a major Detroit manufacturer.

Murphy continued to build individual custom vehicles until he was forced to close in 1932 as the Great Depression brought about a drastic decline in the market for scratch-built coachwork.

4Hud

My guess is a 1924 Jewett. I don't think it is an Essex.

RL Chilton

I think HUD4 is on the right track. This car screams Jewett, but I think either a '25 or '26, with the inclination towards a '26.



The vertical vents in the side of the hood, the shape of hood and radiator, the "regular" swinging doors, and particularly the shape of the front fenders, overall shape of body is right on. Two discrepancies, is the front bumper, which Jewett never used as far as I know and they also used a square, or slightly-shaped rectangle as a radiator badge, which, I know in the old pic is hard to ascertain, but does not look like the right shape . . . (maybe).



Jewett's were made by the Paige Motor Co. of Detroit from '22-'27 and, like Hudson, were big on power, performance and endurance, at least in their sales ads. A quality car, from what I've heard and seen.



Till somebody can prove otherwise, I think HUD4 has ID'd it.

Unknown

Jewett doors are conventional, not forward opening.