Next in a series.or, be careful what you wish for

Unknown

This falls into the the category of "be careful what you wish for..."



I apparently fixed the vacuum tank problem I was having. Turns out that the gasket on the top and one of the fittings was leaking, causing the vacuum problem.



So, I fixed that problem. Now, there is vacuum pulling fuel from the tank. The good news is, I don't have to keep filling the vacuum tank. The bad news is, it appears that there is more fuel being dumped out of the exhaust than there is burning.



I now have a constant stream of white coming out of the exhaust. Below all of the fittings and out the back is a huge stain that appears to be gasoline. Step on the gas, and it goes all the way out the door behind the exhaust pipe.



The car actually ran better when there was a vacuum problem, even though it couldn't get fuel from the tank. Now, it's getting fuel from the tank, but it runs like crap. It starts, albeit wth difficulty, and runs, but not well. Step on the gas, and it runs very rough. I'm pretty sure I couldn't drive it, but I could have before fixing the vacuum problem.



Could I have a blown head gasket, and the anti-freeze is mixing with the fuel and causing it not to burn completely, and blowing out the exhaust? Seems like it wouldn't be so severe if that was the case. I do see a little seepage out of the side of the head, but not enough to replace it until I have other things under control.



It also seems like a lot of problems when the car actually hasn't been running for some time. Is it me, or do I seem to bring on the problems?



Any suggestions where to look next? I tried the timing and mixture, it doesn't help. I also broke :eek: one of the gears that retards the timing and helps with the throttle at the bottom of the steering box working on it this time. Wouldn't be so bad if parts were easy to come by.



Sorry for the long winded explanation. It's been a frustrating night, week, month. Makes me long for the 70 Mach1 that has always been my favorite. But then again, my grandfather didn't own one.................

Jon B

I have absolutely no idea of how those early carbs with the vacuum tanks work, but I was just thinking... The vacuum tank works on vacuum. Suppose something wasn't working like it should, would it be possible for the vacuum line itself to be pulling gasoline directly into the manifold (rather than just providing the suction to move the gasoline up into the vacuum tank and down into the carb)? If so, you then have gas moving through the carb (metered correctly, if you will) and then a whole BUNCH of raw gas making its way directly into the cylinders (via the intake manifold). Bypassing the carb. And jamming the engine with gasoline. Mainlining gas, if you will.



Maybe this problem had developed over the years but was not noticeable, because leakage in the vacuum tank allowed the vacuum line to pull air instead of gasoline. But now that you've sealed things up tight, the vacuum line is pulling gasoline like there was no tomorrow!



Just a wild guess from someone who has absolutely no knowledge of the old-style system.

Unknown

Thanks, Jon. I knew you would be around. Frustrating to say the least.



At least with the vacuum problem, I was able to internalize the issue and understand how to go about fixing the problem (work suffered, a little) but I got there. I have no idea where to start with this one.

Jon B

There, there! Stiff upper lip! Close your eyes and think of the Queen! Cuppa tea and crumpets and all will be well. Geoff will soon be along to set things to rights...

hudsonsplasher1

I had a simular problem with my 17 super six. It was the seat that the shut off neadle goes into to stop the vacuum when the tank was full of gas. The seat had come lose and was sitting on an angle so the neadle couldn't seat itself allowing the gas to be sucked directly into the cylinders, bypassing the carb. Lots of white smoke out of the tail pipe.

I had to remove the top of the vacuum tank and using a small punch, I put 4 small dimples around the seat to hold it in place. Now it works fine.

This is just a possability, but may be worth a look. Gene.

Unknown

26hudson wrote:

This falls into the the category of "be careful what you wish for..."



I apparently fixed the vacuum tank problem I was having. Turns out that the gasket on the top and one of the fittings was leaking, causing the vacuum problem.



So, I fixed that problem. Now, there is vacuum pulling fuel from the tank. The good news is, I don't have to keep filling the vacuum tank. The bad news is, it appears that there is more fuel being dumped out of the exhaust than there is burning.



I now have a constant stream of white coming out of the exhaust. Below all of the fittings and out the back is a huge stain that appears to be gasoline. Step on the gas, and it goes all the way out the door behind the exhaust pipe.



The car actually ran better when there was a vacuum problem, even though it couldn't get fuel from the tank. Now, it's getting fuel from the tank, but it runs like crap. It starts, albeit wth difficulty, and runs, but not well. Step on the gas, and it runs very rough. I'm pretty sure I couldn't drive it, but I could have before fixing the vacuum problem.



Could I have a blown head gasket, and the anti-freeze is mixing with the fuel and causing it not to burn completely, and blowing out the exhaust? Seems like it wouldn't be so severe if that was the case. I do see a little seepage out of the side of the head, but not enough to replace it until I have other things under control.



It also seems like a lot of problems when the car actually hasn't been running for some time. Is it me, or do I seem to bring on the problems?



Any suggestions where to look next? I tried the timing and mixture, it doesn't help. I also broke :eek: one of the gears that retards the timing and helps with the throttle at the bottom of the steering box working on it this time. Wouldn't be so bad if parts were easy to come by.



Sorry for the long winded explanation. It's been a frustrating night, week, month. Makes me long for the 70 Mach1 that has always been my favorite. But then again, my grandfather didn't own one.................

I will say this..I got my Hudson when I was in my early 30's and did not know squat about them. I did not know about this was the only year Hudson used this carbureter that will break if you don't take care, and there is none around to replace it. I took my time cleaning things & checking things I did not know for sure how to. All I can say is "TAKE YOUR TIME" and do not get in a hurry. Thats how I broke the vacuum tank top that was on my car. I am sure it still works great if you need it I will send it to you for the parts. If you want I can take some pics of it and send them to you to compare with yours. I was told it is a mid 20s vacuum tank. Take care and good luck Ron

Unknown

Thanks, Gene. That's actually what I was thinking this morning. Not sure why a drink, good nights sleep and a shower in the morning makes you think of things that you couldn't come up with the night before, but it sure seems to help.



Makes you wonder about that commercial where everyone is meeting in the shower.

hudsonsplasher1

JC;

Please keep us posted on your findings.

Gene.

Unknown

Hey Gene,



I think you and Jon are on to it. Jon also provided a link to a site that has the internal workings of the tank, along with the how and why. The more I think of it, the more I think that's what it could be.



There's a plug on the top of the tank that I can remove that should cut down on the flow enough for me to move the car and get the garage cleaned up. After last night, my wife is ready to throw me out. It stinks all over.



So, tonight is get it started and moved so I can clean, then put it back in the other way around so I can remove the tank top and see if that isn't the cause. It won't hurt to put a new gasket on while I'm at it.



Thanks for the help. Stay Tuned.

Jon B

Aren't old cars fun? Don't you pity the poor people who turn their keys, start their cars, and drive uneventfully about their business without a care in the world? Isn't theirs a drab, wretched existance, devoid of the emotional highs and lows that are ours alone? (LOL!)

Geoff

Oaky, as mentioned it is either the vacuum valve seat misplaced, or the float is punctured. Another possibility - the float is on a long needle which goes down through the centre and acts as a guide. If you have this misplaced it doesn't go up and down, hence the tank will fill up and eventually suck raw fuel through the vacuum line. Just undo the vacuum line and see if the car runs properly. When you put the float back in, dabble it around until the needle goes into the centre hole.

Geoff.

Unknown

I think you all are onto it. After cleaning up the garage, and turning the car around (under it's own power, I would like to point out ), I managed to get some time in on the problem.



I pulled the top off the vacuum canister and found that the seat for the vacuum valve was completely out of place. It was easy to put it back, and it appears that all is working on the inside now (that is, before I put it back together.) The last effort for the evening was to start to make a new gasket for the tank, and replacement should occur tomorrow.



Looking back, I remember my grandfather installing an electric fuel pump because he was having problems. It's unfortunate. This is really a very simple, yet highly reliable, system. Not a lot of moving parts, but when 1 doesn't work right, look out.



I've learned a lot over the last couple of days, and look forward to reporting that I've not only fixed the fuel delivery problem, but the idle and carb tuning as well. Stay tuned. Hopefully, all will be well with the fuel system tomorrow and I'll provide another update.



Thanks to all for their comments. Check back later for an update.

Unknown

SEE, I told you it was simple and really works well when all is right. Buy the way , where is Elverson, Pa and why in the world would your grandma move from beautiful Iowa to Florida?

Unknown

Hey, Tom. Elverson, Pa is just south of Reading, Pa, or, about 45 mile northwest of Philadelphia. Near Lancaster, Amish country.



As for my grandmother moving, my family is from Davenport, Iowa. I was actually born there, and lived with my grandparents for a year when I was 20. Slowly, 3 of my 4 aunts have migrated to Florida, either part time or full time. Recently, the husband of my aunt that lives in the Tampa area died. Shortly after that, my grandmother decided she would move down there to be with my aunt. We think it was because she was tired of the cold weather and needed someone to be around more to help her out. She was still driving, at least until recently, but that's a scary prospect.



So, now she's closer to her daughters, further from the grandchildren and great-grandchildren, but they visit enough to keep everyone happy.



It's sad, but soon there won't be much of the Carney clan left in Iowa.

Unknown

Curious, I moved here from Cedar Rapids 20 years ago, Going back ASAP. Tired of traffic and to many people, probably this coming spring. IOWA is beautiful. Then I can drive my T8 without worring about crazy east coast drivers.

Unknown

Well, Cedar Rapids is a little different than Davenport, at least the last time I was there. I don't see Davenport as much different than what we have out here. But, CR I can see as a bit more laid back. All you have to worry about are the crazy eastern Iowa drivers.



I really like fact that you can drive a little bit out of the city and you come to nothingness. Not a lot of places like that left.

Unknown

Well, I didn't have a lot of time to spend on the car this evening, but I did get the vacuum tank back together. I started the car, and it kept running.



So, it idles, doesn't blow fuel out the exhaust anymore, but that's where I'm at now. Time for a tune-up. I can't seem to move the timing enough with the linkage hooked up to get it to run smooth. It's not too bad, but it tries to stall if you step on the throttle. Depending on the location of the timing advance, I get backfires, and an occastional blow-back through the carb. Also, I still can't move the carb adjustment all the way down.



So, I guess it's time to start over with all the settings and see what happens. I figure I'll disconnect the timing advance and try to get it near where it should be, then work on the adjustments. I have a timing light, but it's 12 volt, so I'll have to see if I can figure a way to get it on a car battery with the induction wire on the Hudson.



Probably not more updates until the weekend. Thanks for all the help.

hudsonsplasher1

JC;

If you have a 6 volt charger, you can just hook up the timing light leads to the charger leads, and your timing light should work fine.

Gene.

hudsonsplasher1

JC;

I ment to say 12 volt charger!!

Gene.

Unknown

Hmmm, interesting. I had that same thought, but wasn't sure if it would work. I'll sure give it a try, because I do have a couple of them.



Thanks for the info, Gene.