Center steer in a modern world

[Deleted User]

Howdy gang, I thought I better post this one in the street rod folder so I don't get strung up.



I'm working on a Hudson pickup project ('46) and I'm tossing and turning between swapping the front end to an S-10 or keeping the original center steer. I have an S-10 donor chassis I can use, but every time I go to look at it, I can't help but think it'd be "cooler" to keep the original chassis and just do a rebuild and disc conversion (as expensive as I know that is).



Question I have is just how stable is the stock front end at today's highway speeds and how does it hold up to punishment? I live in Indiana currently and our interstates are often as bad as the caliche alleys in my hometown in Texas. I do intend to drive the living daylights out of it when I'm done, too.



Thanks!

Glen

bellbigdawg

I would think hitting them potholes and rocks on them old dirt roads would be even worse!!

hudsonguy

Glen,



I think you're on target reconsidering that S-10. I'm certainly no expert, but I do know my '49 Hudson suspension and steering well after having rebuilt them, and I've also owned and repaired several S-10's in the past. That Hudson front end will drive circles around those GM parts (no pun intended!) They were MUCH more rugged in their design. Since all the parts are readily available, I'd recommend sticking with the Hudson parts.

[Deleted User]

Ditto on that. Stick with the center point steering, much better. I work at a Chevy dealer and I think using the S-10 suspension would be taking a step backwards if that makes any sense.

Ol racer

If your building a St Rod the front end is plenty strong considering there were no Interstates back then. With the front engine compartment length probably can fit a V8 rear sump pan behind the centerlink.



I do suggest installing better brakes though using the larger Hornet brakes (Hubs/Drums, & lining) or convert to disc brakes.

LanceB

I have no problem with the stock front end in my truck, just put radial tires on it. Though I do need to up grade the brakes!

[Deleted User]

Hi Hudson Dave here . I have a 46 P/U with Stock F/E and Disc brakes . I have P/S that work great:) . As for disc brake con versions I did mine for about a $100.00 for every thing :eek:. I have done several of these if you would give me a call I can walk you through it . If you are interested . 352-564-4284 Hudson Dave www.FatWhiteWalls.com :cool:

LanceB

Dave,

I agree with Rick, would love to see a material list and some pictures.



Lance

bent metal

You got a third vote for that! I'd like to see a list and pictures too.







Doesn't someone have a disc brake kit for step downs?

[Deleted User]

Add my vote for that.... and a very hearty appreciation for all the replies. I've already done some test fitting of a couple of different engine options with the original frame and it's surprising how easy it looks to be so far.



I think I'm gonna send the S-10 packing.

Lee ODell

Dave, I would like to see a list of material and pictures of your disc brake conversion. I would like to upgrade the brakes on my 47 Hudson pu.



Lee

MikeWA

Sam is always looking for articles for the WTN- I'm surprised he hasn't come on and made that suggestion. I'd love to see it in the magazine. Or somewhere.

[Deleted User]

Hi Hudson Dave here . I have put it on here three times ,with Photos . The last time I tried to help to help some one out I got beat up pretty bad :eek: by three people who must have had more experience then me . I only 65 years old and worked for Ford for 21 years But i have only done this conversion four times myself with great success .:) So that is why i said call me . I love to share thing I know and have done myself . I try not to speculate on how to do things , I only post things that i know work . So to keep from throwing a grenade in the hen house I simply say call .:p . With my typing skills it would be a week from Sunday trying to explain this . Hudson Dave:cool:

bellbigdawg

compairing parts side by side with my 41 pickup and my 99 S10 xtreme, the hudson front suspension is much stronger. easy to rebuild, nice easy pivot greasable A-arm bushings (my 41 has a factory forged steel upper control arm, lets see that on modern cars!) not the rubber pivots on the S-10. my 41 takes corvette shocks as factory replacement. converted to disc brake, the S-10 no longer has any advantages except power steering. they are making computor operated electric power steering for any car in the world now, so there goes that point. I used stainless ARP bolts on my front suspension, ready for corner diving now!!

bent metal

Just saw a truck with disc brakes on stock suspension (A arms). He did change the spindles though. It also had a modern rack and pinion with the center mount. If I remember right it was out of a 1990's Grand Am??? I'll have to ask again. It will be at San Simeon if you can make the meet.

Ol racer

I am glad to see so many other innovators updating the strong Hudson Chassis with modern components. I found that Stepdown Brakes will adapt back to (my '37) with only switching one W/Brg and adding an 1/8" spacer.



Recently I adapted a Saturn R&Pinion to my straight axle Terraplane, (which already had a GM Column with P/S). I bolted the Rack to the Axle, figured the extended & compressed spring travel, then installed a slide Yoke under the column. I shaved a lot of weight eliminating the GM Box, drag link and T/rod crossbar, but it was a few day project.



I may take Dave up on the $100 Disc conversion Process for my new Hudson project

Ol racer

Rick,

I would assume my '37 is the same as your '39; Get the whole Hornet brake assy (backing plates, hubs (drums), Brgs, Lining, w/cyls),



On my '37 I removed the brake assy then bolted the Hornet assy right on using one of the '37 Brgs because one Hornet brg had too large of I.D. (Hornet Spindle is larger in that area). The'37 brg will fit the Hornet race while still having the correct ('37) spindle Dia. Lastly, the '37 spindle is longer (or the Hornet hub is narrower) requiring an 1/8 grade 8 spacer next to the orig washer, (avail from Lowes) The brakes work very good, but to further enhance, I added a GM P/B swing Pedal & master cyl assy with a seperate line to F & R. It stops like my new disc brake car....

Hope this helps.

[Deleted User]

HudsonDave, I found a thread where you posted your approach, and someone else popped a picture of it it up for you... that gave me a decent idea of where to start. The only thing I liked about the other "kit" I read about was getting new hubs. I'd also be interested if there's a spindle swap that'd work.



I have to do some cowl work and get my engine mounts done, then I'll start tackling the front end a bit at a time. Once upon a time, I knew where to find the rebuild parts, but I've slept since then.... can someone refresh my memory?

[Deleted User]

Hi the only thing you need to do is take the hub to a machine shop and have them turn the outside of the hub I think 8K off and the roter slides right on . I drilled the three rivets out and through the rotor and tap it with a 1/4 in. tap and bolted the rotor to the hub . and it worked good . I did my entire converstion in just a little over 2 HR. I hope this helps . Hudson Dave:)

bent metal

You know me, always interested ... However, I'm not going to be anywhere within 3000 or so miles of San Simeon. Pictures, details, parts list, instructions (if possible?)?

He said the rack was a "1995 Pontiac Grand AM". I forgot to ask about the spindles. I know the brakes are Lincoln. I don't want to hi-jack this thread but pictures of that stuff are in "stretch cab truck".

[Deleted User]

Hijack away... i sure don't mind. :-D

[Deleted User]

Rick Pridemore and Bill LaBud. Either are worth the cost
Bob Hickson

[Deleted User]

Pardon my ignorance, but if someone could steer me to where I could dig up more information on either of those two options, I'll give it a look-see.

Unknown

Pardon my interruption, but I was told that changing a center steer car to something with a rack and pinion completely changes the steering geometry. Since the lower control arm pivots are in line with the inner tie rod ends on a Hudson, (and my '37 Packard chassis as well, this is how I came to know this) if you put a rack and pinion on it, you'll have all kinds of steering issues like bumpsteer, etc. Now my question to you who have done this, is this true?

[Deleted User]

As long as the pivot points of the rack & pinion are inline with the pivot points of the lower A arms there shouldn't be a problem.



Wait I just thought about it some more and the way the a arms angle backwards it would probably be impossible to find a rack that short to get all the pivot points aligned.

Unknown

Rarerodder wrote:

As long as the pivot points of the rack & pinion are inline with the pivot points of the lower A arms there shouldn't be a problem.



Wait I just thought about it some more and the way the a arms angle backwards it would probably be impossible to find a rack that short to get all the pivot points aligned.

That's my point. On a '37 Packard, as well as a Hudson, the inner tie rod ends on the center steer arm are no more than two or three inches apart. I've never seen a rack that small. Hence my question, has anyone used a rack on a center steer car, and if so, how is the handling?

Unknown

Doing a little more research on this, I remember as a parts guy coming across a few racks that pivoted in the center. So, I did a little ebaying to look for some racks. I found one for a 98-02 Daewoo Lanos that is center steer, as well as a '95 Acura Legend that's center pivot. I do remember some American cars that have this, I'm thinking some Chrysler's used it too. I think that if you're going to adapt a rack and pinion steering gear, this is what you'd want to use.

Unknown

I wonder what he used. It looks like a Chrysler LH body rack will work, and there's plenty of those cars in the junkyard.

[Deleted User]

Very cool! I may have to venture to a Pick A Part and get a "test" sample for later on.

[Deleted User]

88-94 Chevrolet Cavalier also uses a center point rack. (Looks alot like the above picture)

Unknown

Great! The more cars out there like this the more options we have of something directly fitting our cars, IE length, tie rod end size, etc.