Stepdown Jag front end swap info ?

Unknown

Hi has anyone completed a successful jag front end swap in a 49 step down?

I had read on a post that someone was using a xj6 in a 51 pacemaker.

If so please share your experience and satisfaction about the swap.

Just wanting to compare information and options to a fatman clip.



I am beginning a resto of a 49 commodore in Australia and I am looking at front end options , keeping left hand drive ,any info would be appreciated.

:eek:

Lee ODell

I'm having difficulty sleeping so I'll share some information comparing the Hudson and Jaguar which I have considered using at one time. The shipping weights between both are close, depending on the models.



3585 - 3650 lbs. 1949 Hudsons



3388 - 3793 lbs. 1968 - 1973 XJ6 Jag.

3859 - 4055 lbs. 1975 - 1981 XJ6 Jag.

3881 - 4233 lbs. 1972 - 1973 XJ12 Jag



The front wheel tracking on 1949 Hudson: 58.5"

The front wheel tracking on 1968 - 1981 XJ Jag: 58"



The Jaguar suspension is a complete bolt in crossmember and suspension assembly with rack and pinion power assist steering that has good steering control. You will have to fabricate the mounts for the crossmember to frame, engine to crossmember and connecting the rack to the steering column, ect. The Jaguar springs have 3 - 4 shims 1/8" thick on top of spring to adjust ride height. Removing one shim per spring will lower the car approx. 5/16" on a Jag.uar, may be different for Hudson. Another way to lower car is to add washers between the spring perch and A arm or switch coil springs from another model Jaguar.



The only shock that will give the Jaguar ride quality are Jaguar shocks. Monroe, Gabrial, or other shocks will give a harsher ride. The Jaguar shocks cost more but the improved ride, over other brands, is worth the extra cost. Only from my experience of 30 years working on Jaguar suspensions do I recommend Jag shocks. I tried others.



A trick used with success to restore Jaguar ride quality, mentioned in the JAGUAR V-8 CONVERSION MANUAL, is to add as much as 50 - 75 pounds of lead to the front bumper on XJS model Jaguars. Adding 50 lbs to it's bumper has close to the same affect as adding 75 lbs. to the engine. Adding weight to the front end, slows the reaction of the pitching motions (polar moment of inertia). Small block Chevy engines weigh less than Jaguar engines.



Because Hudsons & Jaguars are close to the same weight, depending on models, that may not be necessary. However, if weight is needed it could be added to the front bumper brackets or as far forward as possible.



Another factor in the Jaguar ride is tires. Perrelli tires seem to be the only tires that complements the Jaguar suspension. Other tires can be used but the ride tends to be harsher.



I believe for lighter Hudsons the XJ6 suspension will work well and the XJ12 suspension for the heaviest step downs.



The rear XJ6 Jaguar suspension is to wide for the stepdown: 58.3".



I will say the Hudson has a very good suspension and installing a bigger anti-sway bar, front and rear, will make a step down take corners like a go cart.



Good luck on your project.



Lee

Unknown

Thanks for your reply. A wealth of knowledge. My car is a 49 Commodore six left hand drive I imported it to Australia a few years ago. Its now time for the full restoration.

As my wife would enjoy driving the car too she insists on power steer. I wish to retain the left hand drive therfore I need to source information about possible swaps and import the parts to Australia, I am having some parts shipped over next month and if I can be sure of the Jag swap I would like to source a front end and import that as well.



Thanks

Danny

Lee ODell

Danny



I was under the impression all cars imported to Australia were required to convert the steering to right hand drive. You will save alot of work if that is not so.



I forgot to mention the wheel bolt pattern is the same as Hudson. You probably already knew that.



If power steering is the main reason for changeing the suspension you might want to review some of the past threads. There are threads dealing with p/s gear box conversions that would require far less work to install, and not as expensive as a complete suspension conversion will be.



I may still have a few Jaguar suspension parts left from when I closed my shop. If interested I'll see what parts I may have left.



I know the Jaguar conversions has been done on Hudsons. There might be some information on a past thread about it.



The Jaguar conversion would be far better than say a Mustang type conversion.



There is probably someone on the forum with more detailed information on what was done to install it.



Interesting project. Keep us posted with your plans. Can you post some pictures of your Commador?



Have a good day.



Lee

Unknown

Danny: As I recall the car you bought came from Lubbock Texas? What would be really interesting is if you were to add the Hudson power steering to a stock Hudson right hand drive and add these components to your car. Just a thought...

Unknown

Lee

We are allowed to keep vehicles left hand drive now on full registration so long as they are more than 30 years old, it used to be they had to be signed left hand drive on the rear of the car as well, but not anymore.

I have read some info about the izusu power box but this conversion was not for a stepdown.

I have not been able to find a completed set up on a stepdown.

Mine is the commodore from

Lubbock Texas its not to bad. I have it stripped the car down ready for sand blasting. Just have to repair rockers, Passenger side frame rail rear and new trunk floor (like all hudsons)

I have ordered all new glass to be shipped as well as new rubbers from K Gap. Would like a sun visor but they are hard to find and I need to have all my parts at the wharf by Oct 15th.

I am very iterested in using the Jag front. A jag swap here is common in rods and customs as is a Mitsubishi L300 van.

Thanks

Danny

chopperchuck

I was talking to a kid about this, has anybody done this? I've heard of GM subs being used. pictures would be great!

TwinH

http://www.industrialchassisinc.com/?p=1469Industrial Chassis Inc recently did  the XJ Jag into a 57 Olds that you can see here:
 
There is a more detailed thread on this build either on the Hamb or on Industrial Chassis Inc. facebook page, I just couldn't locate it right away.

Lee ODell

Chopperchuck

What year, model GM subs have you heard about.. What is the front suspension width?

I have not heard back from Danny for a couple years about his progress with Jag conversion. He may have it finished by now.

chopperchuck

8-|

chopperchuck

For some reason, my last post didn't show?

Well let's try this again::: I heard of guys using Nova/ Camaro subs & guys using a 79 Cadillac sub and a couple used Jags and even a S10 cut sub- but no one seems to have pictures?? I email them & poooffff they disappear!

I'm starting to think there's 21,579 Step-Downs with unfinished sub swaps some where in the world

53jetman

"I'm starting to think there's 21,579 Step-Downs with unfinished sub swaps some where in the world"  
There is far too much of this goes on, the hacker gives up, and then the car (sometimes a really good example) is then scrapped and no one benefits! ! !

BillUSN1

I thought about this "if" I got to the point of needing to swap the front.
A very common swap now a days id the Ford Crown Vic like all the used cop car/taxis.
There are many write ups, not Hudson, but enough to show you how it's done.
It's a modern front suspension and pretty much complete and self contained.
Width may be an issue to deal with but wheel offset could help since you obviously aren't worried about keeping it original.

Given the design of the front suspension, I'm going to try and save mine first and just rebuild what I find worn.
It may get to a price issue based on some of the prices I have seen for replacement parts for the Hudson front end.
IIRC I saw a complete rebuild kit with all upper and lower shafts and bushings for $525.
I don't think you can get a front clip installed cheaper than that.

53jetman

BillUSN1  -  Please, don't plan on a front end swap until you get the car drivable as it is
Hudson has one of the finest front end designs going as far as road-ability and ride.! !

RL Chilton

One of the older, straight axle front ends I can see maybe swapping, but changing a step down front end is a waste of time and money that could be used elsewhere IMO.  

Geoff

To each their own!  Personally I can't see much advantage.

464Saloon

I'm having difficulty sleeping so I'll share some information comparing the Hudson and Jaguar which I have considered using at one time. The shipping weights between both are close, depending on the models.



3585 - 3650 lbs. 1949 Hudsons



3388 - 3793 lbs. 1968 - 1973 XJ6 Jag.

3859 - 4055 lbs. 1975 - 1981 XJ6 Jag.

3881 - 4233 lbs. 1972 - 1973 XJ12 Jag



The front wheel tracking on 1949 Hudson: 58.5"

The front wheel tracking on 1968 - 1981 XJ Jag: 58"



The Jaguar suspension is a complete bolt in crossmember and suspension assembly with rack and pinion power assist steering that has good steering control. You will have to fabricate the mounts for the crossmember to frame, engine to crossmember and connecting the rack to the steering column, ect. The Jaguar springs have 3 - 4 shims 1/8" thick on top of spring to adjust ride height. Removing one shim per spring will lower the car approx. 5/16" on a Jag.uar, may be different for Hudson. Another way to lower car is to add washers between the spring perch and A arm or switch coil springs from another model Jaguar.



The only shock that will give the Jaguar ride quality are Jaguar shocks. Monroe, Gabrial, or other shocks will give a harsher ride. The Jaguar shocks cost more but the improved ride, over other brands, is worth the extra cost. Only from my experience of 30 years working on Jaguar suspensions do I recommend Jag shocks. I tried others.



A trick used with success to restore Jaguar ride quality, mentioned in the JAGUAR V-8 CONVERSION MANUAL, is to add as much as 50 - 75 pounds of lead to the front bumper on XJS model Jagsuars. Adding 50 lbs to it's bumper has close to the same affect as adding 75 lbs. to the engine. Adding weight to the front end, slows the reaction of the pitching motions (polar moment of enertia). Small block Chevy engines weigh less than Jaguar engines.



Because Hudsons & Jaguars are close to the same weight, depending on models, that may not be necessary. However, if weight is needed it could be added to the front bumper brackets or as far forward as possible.



Another factor in the Jaguar ride is tires. Perrelli tires seem to be the only tires that complements the Jaguar suspension. Other tires can be used but the ride tends to be harsher.



I believe for lighter Hudsons the XJ6 suspension will work well and the XJ12 suspension for the heaviest step downs.



The rear XJ6 Jaguar suspension is to wide for the stepdown: 58.3".



I will say the Hudson has a very good suspension and installing a bigger anti-sway bar, front and rear, will make a step down take corners like a go cart.



Good luck on your project.



Lee

464Saloon

Personally I don't know why you would want to change a stepdown front end either. I was thinking about putting bigger bars in my car as I have already done some spring improvements and urethane bushings in mine. Is there a front bar out there that will fit a stepdown? I have no idea what you would do with the rear, That is a really strange bar and I think we modified some Commercial truck urethane body mounts for bushings, It was a few years ago now.

RL Chilton

I agree.  Now, putting a bigger sway bar on at least the front and/or the rear, would be something I would certainly consider.  I wish my Hudson sedan had a little less body roll.  I'm anxious to see how the convertible handles, whether it's basically the same, or slightly better due to all the new components.  Is there a front sway bar that fits a step-down and is in the 7/8" to 1" range?  

chopperchuck

 

The car in question  HAS no A-arms or steering parts (probably taken for a another vehicle) 
X(

I figure we could help from here, BUT I guess I was wrong!  Sorry for wasting your time!

 

:-S

464Saloon

RL, one of my best friends has a spring and suspension shop. He used springs from a Crown Victoria Police Interceptor and cut them down and rolled them. That gave me an increased spring rate but still a good ride. He stiffened the leaves in back and undercut them so they moved better. So it corners much flatter but still rides nice. We customized urethane bushings to fit throughout. A bigger bar would be the last step.

ski4life65

Chuck

 

I have a parts car that you can take the front end parts from.....Same offer I made for wheels.....free if you come get them.

 

Don