Timing with a vacuum gage.

Richie

Thought I'd pass this on as I really like this idea after using it. I have been driving the 51 Pacemaker lately as my daily driver and had timed the 232 using the vac. gage instead of a timing light, it seemed to run better that way. Today I took the 50 Pacemaker with the 262 out for a ride with my wife and when we returned I decided to try that timing method on it. It had 19 " of vac. at idle and after turning the dist. it went up to almost 22" so I backed it down to read 20" at Idle. The difference in performance is like night and day !! I couldn't believe it !! Not sure how accurate the vac. readings are because the fuel pump also creates vac. and I used the wiper motor vac. line to get my readings. I had read about this timing method not long ago in a thread here on the forum. Great idea !!! Richie.

[Deleted User]

Richie:

Good to hear your still improving your HET products. I read that technique, but havent tried it yet. Will remember to try it. Your car still looks good, does the 50 run as strong as the 51 does now? Keep'm rolling, Bob

Richie

bobdriveshudson wrote:

Richie:

Good to hear your still improving your HET products. I read that technique, but havent tried it yet. Will remember to try it. Your car still looks good, does the 50 run as strong as the 51 does now? Keep'm rolling, Bob

Bob, thanks, the 50 has come alive and will easily out run the 51. The 51 has 4.76 gears and the 50 has 4.1 gears, but the 50 is much faster and pulls with ease the hills that it kinda struggled with before. Very noticeable improvement. I love working on them and yes I'm always trying to improve them. "Thats what we do". Are your projects coming along OK? I'll bet they are !!! Richie.

[Deleted User]

Keep jacking the timing up until you get all the vacuum you can get, then back off 1". Use the direct manifold vacuum for your gauge if you can, the line going from the intake to the vacuum pump instead of the one going to the wipers. The line going from the carb to the vacuum advance is ported and won't give you the right reading either. This almost always puts a stock Hudson distributor with the vacuum advance unhooked at 8* BTDC @ 1000' elevation.



When you get done with that, use the vacuum gauge to set your idle mixture. Turn the screws in lean until you notice the vacuum drop a bit, then richen it up until you get max vacuum again. Do that for each idle mixture screw on your carb. When you think you have them right, check the idle mixture screw again. Repeat until a 1/4 turn range causes a vacuum drop and recover. Now you are at lean best idle, the throttle response of your Hudson should be a tad crisper.



I love vacuum gauges.



Mark

Richie

`Hudsonator wrote:

Keep jacking the timing up until you get all the vacuum you can get, then back off 1". Use the direct manifold vacuum for your gauge if you can, the line going from the intake to the vacuum pump instead of the one going to the wipers. The line going from the carb to the vacuum advance is ported and won't give you the right reading either. This almost always puts a stock Hudson distributor with the vacuum advance unhooked at 8* BTDC @ 1000' elevation.



When you get done with that, use the vacuum gauge to set your idle mixture. Turn the screws in lean until you notice the vacuum drop a bit, then richen it up until you get max vacuum again. Do that for each idle mixture screw on your carb. When you think you have them right, check the idle mixture screw again. Repeat until a 1/4 turn range causes a vacuum drop and recover. Now you are at lean best idle, the throttle response of your Hudson should be a tad crisper.



I love vacuum gauges.



Mark

Mark, I will try it again tomorrow using the vacuum connection you suggest. I did not try and adjust the idle mixtures but will do that tomorrow also. Thanks for your advice. Richie.

TOM-WA-

`Hudsonator wrote:

Keep jacking the timing up until you get all the vacuum you can get, then back off 1". Use the direct manifold vacuum for your gauge if you can, the line going from the intake to the vacuum pump instead of the one going to the wipers. The line going from the carb to the vacuum advance is ported and won't give you the right reading either. This almost always puts a stock Hudson distributor with the vacuum advance unhooked at 8* BTDC @ 1000' elevation.



When you get done with that, use the vacuum gauge to set your idle mixture. Turn the screws in lean until you notice the vacuum drop a bit, then richen it up until you get max vacuum again. Do that for each idle mixture screw on your carb. When you think you have them right, check the idle mixture screw again. Repeat until a 1/4 turn range causes a vacuum drop and recover. Now you are at lean best idle, the throttle response of your Hudson should be a tad crisper.



I love vacuum gauges.



Mark

Use the direct manifold vacuum for your gauge if you can, the line going from the intake to the vacuum pump instead of the one going to the wipers. CAN YOU EXPLAIN? WHAT IS THE VACUME PUMP AND WHERE IS IT LOCATED? Also should the Vacume advance be connected or disconnected when doing these adjustments?





THANKS



TOM

[Deleted User]

TOM-WA- wrote:

Use the direct manifold vacuum for your gauge if you can, the line going from the intake to the vacuum pump instead of the one going to the wipers. CAN YOU EXPLAIN? WHAT IS THE VACUME PUMP AND WHERE IS IT LOCATED? Also should the Vacume advance be connected or disconnected when doing these adjustments?





THANKS



TOM

Most Hudsons are running a "dual chamber" fuel pump. the top "pump" does nothing but boost the vacuum signal to the wiper motor. You'll notice a vacuum line going from the intake manifold to the top pump chamber, then going out the same chamber to the wipers. There are a set of valves in this vacuum pump that allow it to only work when the manifold vacuum goes below a certain level, its not pumping a vacuum all the time. Ideally, these dual chamber pumps create just enough vacuum to prevent your wipers from stopping going uphill or under hard acceleration when you have little to no manifold vaccum.



The condition of the valves in the vacuum chamber can be less than perfect and cause the gauge to read improperly when tuning with a vacuum gauge.



Some Hudson's are running a single chamber fuel pump, which looks like a common fuel pump we're accustomed to seeing. With one of these pumps, the vacuum line to the wipers comes straight from the manifold and is fine to use a gauge on.



While dual chamber pumps are great when working properly, they can obviously be very aggravating sources of a vacuum leak when going bad. An improperly functioning dual chamber pump caused me to nearly pull my hair out while tuning on my own Hudson. I replaced it with a single chamber pump and just eliminated the possibility of such a vacuum leak anymore.



Mark

TOM-WA-

OK I am going to give the Vacuum tune up a try



1. should the car be warmed up and running at operating temp?



2. should the Vacuum Advancce be disconnected before doing this procedure?





THANKS, TOM

[Deleted User]

TOM-WA- wrote:

OK I am going to give the Vacuum tune up a try



1. should the car be warmed up and running at operating temp?



2. should the Vacuum Advancce be disconnected before doing this procedure?





THANKS, TOM

Use a hand held vacuum pump on your wiper motor and if it will not hold vacuum that means the wiper needs rebuild. When hooked to the engine you are losing vacuum to the intake manifold and no way can you set the timing correctly. Walt.

[Deleted User]

Would some one be so kind as to explain how do to this using very simple terms/directions?



Do the local Auto shops sell a vacuum tool kit to use this methode?

Richie

Pacemaker500 wrote:

Would some one be so kind as to explain how do to this using very simple terms/directions?



Do the local Auto shops sell a vacuum tool kit to use this methode?

Pacemaker500, here is a follow-up to my original post. The next day I did this method (vac.gage timing) again as follows. I used the direct manifold vacuum this time instead of the wiper motor vac. line. I had the engine warmed up to normal operating temp. I did not disconnect the vac. advance line to the dist.

I first adjusted the mixture screws as described the way Mark suggested and adjusted to the highest vacuum reading on each screw going in and out until the vacuum was sensative to just a small movement of the mixture screws. Then I adjusted the dist. to obtain the highest vac. reading possible and backed off 1". I used a hand held vacuum gage with large numbers to make reading it easy for these old eyes. I have no idea right now what the actual timing is set at, could be 1* or 10*. I will check it with a timing light next week just out of curiosity. I really don't care where it is set because it runs better than it ever had and it doesn't ping. Hope this helps. Richie.

[Deleted User]

Let me rephase my question..........



Is there simple 8th grade level directions for this procedure with 8 by 10 photo glossys and lot sof extra notes stating things like: "if you have a Carter 749S carb, then the screws are located ....."



Thanks.......

[Deleted User]

Ken U-Tx wrote:

Looks like we have a tough customer here......LOL

I am just looking at the Service Manual and and can not get my head around the huge Octo-hose vacuum system used by Hudson techs back in the day.



So I need very simple directions with pictures and things like NAPA or AutoZone part numbers for a modern vacuum system that will work with this procedure.



Do they make 6V timing lights and RPM guages? I canot find any. I would love to know how to hook up an RPM guage so I can see what I am running when I am checking the engine out as I move forward.

RL Chilton

Pacemaker500-

The meter or RPM-Dwell-Volt-meter I bought recently from Sears works great, is not 6V or 12V specific (works on both systems). It's nice because it's in a small box that stands up so that you can stand it inside the engine bay and clearly read it from across the car. It's got one large needle and a switch to change it for different readings: RPM's, volts, dwell angle. Fairly cheap, can't remember, about $20-$25.

They also sell a timing light, if you want one. I didn't use it, just used the vacuum gauge to set timing. Used a Uni-Sync tool available from Dave Kostansek to set Twin-H, if you have it. Get the tools you need, then get back on here and I'll take color glossy 8 x 10 photos with words and descriptions written on the back of each one (LOL!) and we'll get you set up on how to fine tune your Hudson.

junkcarfann

I searched google for "vacuum gauge" and got these:



http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EW0KPY



Here is another one:



http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/sku/Univ/Lisle/Vacuum_Gauge/L1720300.html?tlc=Tools+%26+Garage



A unisyn is designed for two more more carburetors; if your car has only one carburetor, a unisyn is overkill, and more expensive. A simple gauge such as these is all you need.



Regarding how to do it, I will let others walk you through it. Good luck!!



Regarding a 6 volt tach, google turned up this...



http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15055