Do you guys think Barrett-Jackson is good or bad for the Hobby?

Unknown

I think the cars that go to auction are beautiful, but I have had experiences with trying to buy a car and the owners have put a ridiculous price on it because they have seen one go for a very high amount on Barrett Jackson. Alot of the guys that buy and sell at Barrett are car guys, but some are just investors that buy and sell only for a profit. Alot of models (70-73 Cudas for example) have skyrocketed to the point that a guy like me can only dream about owing one. I can't even find a non numbers matching shell for less than 10 grand. What do you guys think? Does Barrett Jackson and shows like that Car Search (only reason for that show is to make a profit on an automobile) push the prices up or perpetuate the hobby.?

rambos_ride

hemiEssex wrote:

I think the cars that go to auction are beautiful, but I have had experiences with trying to buy a car and the owners have put a ridiculous price on it because they have seen one go for a very high amount on Barrett Jackson. Alot of the guys that buy and sell at Barrett are car guys, but some are just investors that buy and sell only for a profit. Alot of models (70-73 Cudas for example) have skyrocketed to the point that a guy like me can only dream about owing one. I can't even find a non numbers matching shell for less than 10 grand. What do you guys think? Does Barrett Jackson and shows like that Car Search (only reason for that show is to make a profit on an automobile) push the prices up or perpetuate the hobby.?

I think Barretts auctions definetely inflates the value of certain cars - but only within the confines of an auction environment. We see that happening all the time on Ebay with folks getting caught up in the bidding process.



Remember over the last few years Barretts has been able to cash in on their popularity by offering only cars that have no reserve attached to them. So the potential is there to still get a decent deal on a car at one of their auctions - but usually unlikely.



I think the biggest thing driving prices today is just simply supply and demand. Boomer's, and Genx'rs are at the point in their lives where personal income and material collections are such that allow them to buy cars they either had in their youth = or wanted!



And of course - car collecting goes through ups and downs just like any other industry. Chances are very likely that with gas prices and the beginnings of inflation showing up that there could likely be a downturn in prices on collector cars in the next couple of years.



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[Deleted User]

I think it pushes the lower buck hobbiest/enthusiast out.

It also , in my opinion, takes away from the experience of owning an old car...if you spend 50K or more on a car, you are most likely not go and use it as a driver and I think that all cars should be driven, otherwise they are kind of useless

[Deleted User]

B-J (appropriate!) takes a bunch of morons with more cash than sense, puts them together in one big room, and lets them duke it out for the honor of paying way too damn much for an assembly-line-built car. Let's say there is a numbers-matching, original down to the air in the tires '70 LS6 Chevelle with 4-spd and 50 original miles. This would be a time capsule, totally unique and worthy of the most delicate care and the resources to keep it that way. It sells for, say $2M. A record price beyond anyone's expectations! Now, the guy with a project big-block Chevelle, with a rolling shell, a seat, no engine or tranny, or title, and maybe all of the glass is going to look at that result and look at his suddenly "historic", I'm-sending-my-kids-to-college-with-this car and ask $25K for it. The week before, he might have got $3,500 on a good day for a car worth more like $2K. The thing is, he'll find some schmuck that'll look at that shell and go "wow!" and think B-J, and actually buy the hulk for the ridiculous inflated price. Market forces at work, granted. But why the unbelievable BS??? First, the guy with cubic money wants to impress his buddies. Second, the poor guy, who now can't afford to buy the trim clips for his project because all of the prices have skyrocketed to stupid levels, looks at his overpriced project as a money tree. Everybody gets hurt in this scenario, and it happens daily. B-J and other high-vis auctions simply perpetuate this craziness.

Aaron D. IL

Deinitely B-J hurts the Hobby in part because it invites speculators who really have no concern for the hobby or the cars. These are the people you meet at shows that ask you "wow How much is it worth?" It's rude because it's equivellant to asking your income. There was a classic car book I had I don't recall the name of that had a quote from a former AACA president that said "I fear in 20 years many of us will find ourselves in the outside of the hobby looking in." He was lamenting the fact that values were going up and market forces were entering into what was supposed to be a hobby of camraderie and personal enjoyment. You may say that if a person can get those prices more power to them and I would agree but out of my collective sense of responsibility I can see where a bunch or morons with more cash than sense hurt the rest of us. Recession may not actually slacken the demand for old cars and other collector items. It might actually INCREASE IT! Why? Because when the stock market is not doing diddly for most people and or inflation rises speculators start looking for other investments! Cars (and other collectors items) in that sense behave like gold does as a commodity...it is not an investment per se rather it is a hedge against inflation because there is only so much of it. True the car market goes through swings and popularity but the long term trend is up at least as long as we are allowed to drive vehicles with internal combustion engines.

This happened in the '80's when old car prices went way up because of specualtors looking for other investments. Another example my father told me about a friend of his that was into collecting koo koo clocks. Him and a bunch of friends used to go to garage sales and pick them up for nothing and then get together and compare them and talk about history and all of that....then they became collectable (a euphamism for expensive) and all the fun was sucked out of it and the original collectors left that hobby. My point...the HET club and all other's in the car community should be very concerned that old cars should become the provence of only an elite few who can afford it. We could theoretically end up with whole chapters supporting the maintainance and upkeep of only 1 Hudson for preservation due to expense much as is the case with vintage military aircraft. However, collectively we can do things to keep costs down for hobbyists and gear heads and keep wild speculators (morons with more money than sense) from screwing it all up. Individually we cannot do that or make an impact in the old car market. If this reeks of "planned economy" to you I claim guilt but mostly out of my desire to see this hobby be around for another 50 years and STILL BE FUN FOR ALL.

Unknown

I have to agree, I watch that BJ auction and all it does is infuriate me. 1 million for a cuda convertible, come on they are nice cars but not 1 million dollars. These cars were nice in there day but not that nice. The only way to stop it is to go back to your roots. A few buddies of mine are starting a car club locally, no dues, no meetings, NO MONEY. This month we meet at my garage, I buy the beer, we work on my rod, I need a part and you have it and don't have a use for it, you give it to me. I have a part you need, I give it to you. You want to reupholster your seat, I give you the material at my cost and help you out, I need my tranny rebuilt, you are a mechanic, I buy the parts and you rebuild it. At the end of the night, we put our names in a hat, each throw in 10 bucks and draw a name. That is where we go next time, you buy the beer. This is what the car hobby is all about, sharing knowledge and enjoying the hobby without the monetary and financial gain. BJ does nothing to perpetuate this. Just my 2 cents.



Steve Derby

Smithers BC

Canada

Aaron D. IL

hemiEssex wrote:

I have to agree, I watch that BJ auction and all it does is infuriate me. 1 million for a cuda convertible, come on they are nice cars but not 1 million dollars. These cars were nice in there day but not that nice. The only way to stop it is to go back to your roots. A few buddies of mine are starting a car club locally, no dues, no meetings, NO MONEY. This month we meet at my garage, I buy the beer, we work on my rod, I need a part and you have it and don't have a use for it, you give it to me. I have a part you need, I give it to you. You want to reupholster your seat, I give you the material at my cost and help you out, I need my tranny rebuilt, you are a mechanic, I buy the parts and you rebuild it. At the end of the night, we put our names in a hat, each throw in 10 bucks and draw a name. That is where we go next time, you buy the beer. This is what the car hobby is all about, sharing knowledge and enjoying the hobby without the monetary and financial gain. BJ does nothing to perpetuate this. Just my 2 cents.



Steve Derby

Smithers BC

Canada

Steve I think that kind of car club is a beautiful thing!! Because when I go to a car show with others who are like-minded I like to compare notes not bank balances. The point of a club is to reach common car-related goals by working together and networking too.

[Deleted User]

Hey Steve what agreat idea!! We did something similar to that years ago in my Hawg days! Many of the old time bikers are still that way today. I'm going to try and get something going here. I think the local HET club here is gone, or at least nothing has happened on their website since '04. Anyway, I want people with all makes of cars.



Jay

[Deleted User]

B-J is in my backyard, but I never go. Not interested in show cars, just those that are drivers.

harry54

Barrett Jackson was in the right place at the right time. After the bust of the dot.com. world in 99 , people were looking for other places to put there money. I believe alot of baby boomers started to invest in tangible assets. Such as Art, collectibles and antique auto's . In January of 2000 and 2001 Barrett seemed to take off. Then came 9-11 and the fear of terrorism drove the mkt higher and the 2002 Barrett results were up 25%. It's become an exchange for another asset class. If you look at ebay , you could make the argument that it's a secondry exchange . It's crazy because people who just have money to throw around go to Barrett to get on TV and Fan there Ego's. The average guy gets lost and can't afford to get in the hobby. I think however it's here to stay. All the clues seem to point to the Hobby growing and the asset class getting more secure due to these exchanges. Thank God for the HET club.......

rambos_ride

I like Steves car club - I wish I could muster some help on my 49 from time to time - but no one wants to work outside in my carport - but it does keep the beer cold this time of year!



I have to still disagree with labeling B-J's as detrimental to pricing or our hobby. Pricing is always market driven and the collector car market has just swung towards muscle cars and hot rods - it wasn't long ago where muscle cars and street rods were ignored in the favor of early and classic euro's (Rolls, Duesey's, Jags, etc..)



It also wasn't that long ago that if you had a non-matching numbers muscle car - it was worthless. BUT auctions like B-J's have made clones and era correct replacements nearly as valuable as the stock unmolested cars.



TODAY THERE ARE 2 THINGS THAT TICK ME OFF... :mad:



1 - I didn't invest in Microsoft early on and HEAVILY!(then I could be the one buying those B-J's cars...)

2 - That I didn't have the foresight to buy 1000's of driveable muscle cars (and Hudsons) in my youth - and stock pile them to sell today!

Unknown

Right on Dan, should have bought that Microsoft stock and what about all those hemi cudas, big block chevies and fords that dealers could not give away in the mid 70's, should have took em all. A numbers matching, high dollar trailer princess does not interest me in the least. The only thing I want to do to them when I see them is drive the ass off them. Cool. Just want to get my car done so I can start touring the states and hook up with other car guys like myself. Me and the wife are planning to do this instead of flying away some where. I can make US border in 12 Hours and then drive anywhere from there. Pass anything but a gas station!!

[Deleted User]

You know what interests me at a car show??? It's not the rows of HEMI and 440 Mopar E-bodies, or big-block GM muscle, or Shelby Mustangs...it's the survivor cars that we ALL grew up with, rode in, drove to school, got our first taste of love (I'm being polite!) in, like big Chryslers, Chevy wagons, '50s and '60s pickups, and the "freak oddball" cars like Metros, Isettas, and FIAT 500s. All you see in the magazines are the cars I mentioned first. There are more HEMI cars running around today than Chrysler ever hoped to sell new! Face it, one Challenger looks like another Challenger; one Mustang looks like another Mustang at any show. Mind you, I've been around musclecars since before I turned ten years old, and that was over 35 years ago. And I've owned some very rare ones to boot, like a '69 Dart GTS 440, or a '66 Bonneville 389 Tri-Power with factory air conditioning (yes, it was original!). But, these cars all deserve our attention and respect, just because of what they are and what they represent. What they don't represent, as assembly-line-built cars, is the truly stupid prices people are asking for, and getting for, them. Craziness abouds, and the early '50s cars are next in line, along with the late '70s and early '80s collectables, for the insanity to begin with their prices.

PAULARGETYPE

Bj Has Drove The Price Up Of All Cars As Has Been Stated There Making Money The Guy With The Hudson Cv Thats Sells For $100,000 He Gives $10,000 To Bj And The Buyer Gives Them Another $10,000 There Not Doing This All Out Of The Goodness Of There Heart Now As For The Het Club Things Are Alot Different Here In The Burgh We Are All Friends Just Helping Out Any One We Can Not Much Money Changes Hands Between Us We Have Nice Cars That We Are Prowd Of Yes We Have Has Some Good Days At Car Shows But Our Cars Are Always Driven In And I Don't Mean Out Of The Trailer!!! You Can Drive A $100,000 Car Crazy We Maybe But We Are Having Fun And Getting Other Intrested In Hudsoning

Uncle Josh

I wouldn't drive a car everyday that I have megabucks in.



I drive a Hudson almost every day of the week in season, and when I'm ready to go to a car show, I know whatever Hudson I drive there is gonna make it 'cause I have a lot of fun 'confidence miles' on it.

PAULARGETYPE

Josh I'm Nots Saying We Have Mega Bucks In Them Just What The Worth If We Were To Sell

[Deleted User]

Old cars are getting more and more expensive and out of the reach of the working class everyday. As much as I would like a nice coupe Hornet (or conv. or Hollywood while I'm dreaming) it's not going to happen this year or this decade. I wanted a Hudson, and the only one affordable now is the Jet. For the price of what guys are paying for little more than a shell of a stepdown, I got a car with that Hudson smell that I can drive and enjoy right away and looks good from 20 feet away.



The future for the hobbyist is enjoying the cars that have been ignored over the years - Pacemakers, Commodore 6's, Studebaker Larks, Gremlins, Pacers, Darts ... and on and on. Something that doesn't cost $25K and still need work.



Speaking of old cars that I'd like to have, my wife's first car was a 1978 Plymouth Horizon - orange vinyl interior, roof rack, black paint with vinyl wood grain on the side, 4 speed with Audi/VW sourced engine. I bet we'll never see one of those at Barrett-Jackson.

[Deleted User]

royer wrote:

Old cars are getting more and more expensive and out of the reach of the working class everyday. As much as I would like a nice coupe Hornet (or conv. or Hollywood while I'm dreaming) it's not going to happen this year or this decade. I wanted a Hudson, and the only one affordable now is the Jet. For the price of what guys are paying for little more than a shell of a stepdown, I got a car with that Hudson smell that I can drive and enjoy right away and looks good from 20 feet away.



The future for the hobbyist is enjoying the cars that have been ignored over the years - Pacemakers, Commodore 6's, Studebaker Larks, Gremlins, Pacers, Darts ... and on and on. Something that doesn't cost $25K and still need work.



Speaking of old cars that I'd like to have, my wife's first car was a 1978 Plymouth Horizon - orange vinyl interior, roof rack, black paint with vinyl wood grain on the side, 4 speed with Audi/VW sourced engine. I bet we'll never see one of those at Barrett-Jackson.

Pacemakers, Commodore's and Hudson's in general are increasing in value.... please, please don't associate them with Gremlins and Pacers, they are ugly ugly, ugly!!! No wonder AMC went under... Niels

[Deleted User]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder... or is it beer-holder?



I'd say that AMC's demise was building and selling French cars, not Gremlins and Pacers