Brougham?

Unknown

What are the distinguishing features on a Brougham, i.e., what made a Brougham a Brougham? Does the iden. plate tell you whether your car was a Brougham? What years was it available as far as stepdowns are considered?



Please, somebody educate me.

Jon B

Hudson used the term 'brougham' to describe its 2-door sedans (also called 'coaches' in earlier versions, and by other manufacturers). This is the 4-door body but with only 2 front doors (wider doors than the front doors in 4-door sedans). So far as I know Hudson never identified these with any nameplate and I don't think that there was any identifying serial number to tell this, unless it might have been on one of the special aluminum-bodied cars of the 1920's.

Unknown

Jon B wrote:

Hudson used the term 'brougham' to describe its 2-door sedans (also called 'coaches' in earlier versions, and by other manufacturers). This is the 4-door body but with only 2 front doors (wider doors than the front doors in 4-door sedans). So far as I know Hudson never identified these with any nameplate and I don't think that there was any identifying serial number to tell this, unless it might have been on one of the special aluminum-bodied cars of the 1920's.

So, this sounds like the wheelbase on the 4D Sedan and the 2D Brougham would be the same? How does this relate to Convert.'s that I've seen listed as Brougham's? Were two different models of Convert. Brougham's available? Possibly with differing wheelbases?



Russell

Aaron D. IL

All step-downs shared the same 124" Wheelbase except for the Pacermaker and later Wasp models on the 119" Wheelbase. There were convertibles on both wheelbase's. There was no a separate brougham/non brougham convertible model. They just called them convertible broughams as a designation. Why I don't know...the only feature they really shared was the same length doors. and front end sheet metal cosmetically.

Broughams, later designated "Club sedans" in '54, had the sedan roofline and larger coupe doors basically. It had a much longer back window that could roll down half-way and looks sort of chopped almost but all step-down has 11" window height form the factory.

[Deleted User]

The original definition of a "brougham" had nothing to do with cars, but with horse-drawn carriages. It signifies an open driver's compartment with a fully-enclosed passenger compartment. A stagecoach is a brougham. Some of the early cars were considered true "broughams", but the name went with different body styles with different manufacturers over the years. Jon's description as it applies to Stepdowns is correct.

Jon B

Hudson did in fact refer to some 1930's convertibles as broughams, though this had nothing to do with 2-door sedan (closed) models. In 1937 Hudson introduced a convertible coupe with a back seat and removable rear quarter windows, and they called it a 'convertible brougham' to differentiate it from the almost-identical 'convertible coupe' produced that year. The convertible coupe had no back seat nor rear quarter windows; in fact the cabin area was less than that of the cv. brougham, due to the fact that the brougham's rear seat area was larger.



I believe this was the first time Hudson offered a 2-door convertible with a full back seat and rear quarter windows except for the short-lived 'sun sedan' in 1930; but that was NOT called a 'brougham'. So, go figure.



(More than you ever wanted to know about the word 'brogham'....)

Aaron D. IL

I don't think there are any surviving sun-sedans either.....are they extinct Jon ?

Unknown

Here's my 50 Brougham Cpe: Note the steeply sloped rear, where the Club Cpe has a more vertical rear window.







50 Brougham Cpe

Unknown

Very nice, Buggboy!

I've always liked the stepdown sedans more than the coupes that I've seen, largely due to the sloping rear.

Since the Brougham was a sedan body with only two doors, it seems like a very nice compromise to me. This is what I'd be looking for in a stepdown coupe.



As RL Chilton asked... what year were these manufactured?

Were any of them Twin-H?

[Deleted User]

Broughams were manufactured each year of Stepdown production. There's a '54 Hornet Special FS in KS, complete car for $800.00 that would make a sweet car to build or rod.

Unknown

buggboy wrote:

Here's my 50 Brougham Cpe: Note the steeply sloped rear, where the Club Cpe has a more vertical rear window.







50 Brougham Cpe

I think that is one awesome old ride! :cool: ......R.V.

[Deleted User]

Jase- Your '50 Brougham Cpe looks just like my '50 Brougham 2-door sedan. Norm

Unknown

Howdy

I don't think that a coupe and a sedan are the same. The coupe has the short rear side window and the longer trunk lid. The tudor sedan has the short trunk lid the same as the fordor. I have a '50 Pacemaker tudor Brougham and a 53 Hornet fordor and they have the same trunk lid. I am considering selling the Pacemaker.

Billy

SuperDave

It's been hashed over here in the past, but fits into this thread.If you want a Hornet in a two door sedan.. It will have to be a 54 'cuz that is the only year they were made. And it will be a Hornet Special. it uses mostly Super Wasp trim.124" wheel base and the long front end.. It makes a very well porportioned body.(IMHO) They were offered with Twin H as well as all the other options. Now that I think of it, I don't ever recall seeing any year step down Commodore in a Two door sedan body. I have seen many coupes.

Any one ever see one?

PAULARGETYPE

did some one say 'H A S H'

Unknown

Say, thanks for the kind words, guys! Kind of a cool "backstory" on the Hudson. We moved to a new (to us, its Civil War era) house in 1984. I was 12 or so at the time. While riding my bike in the neighbourhood, I saw the tail end of what I thought was a Merc in a garage. As I got closer, I could see "Hudson". I started talking to the owner, and I think he was blown away that a 12 year old knew about Hudson, and that they were the forerunner of AMC....



Fast Forward to last year. He's retired, and is moving to Ct. He calls me up and says "If you still want the Hudson, come get it. I know you'll treat it right".



Needless to say, I was at his house toot-sweet with a trailer.



VERY little rust in the framerails...maybe cause it's been in a garage since 1970(!). Floors are kinda dicey in spots, all in all a VERY saveable car. It's at a shop right now having the welding done. Should be done in a month or so, then to get the clutch unstuck and get a new disc from Doug W. Oh yea, filed the points and it started after I got it to my storage area.

vestpuzzle1 wrote:

I think that is one awesome old ride! :cool: ......R.V.

SuperDave

Jase,

Neat Brougham! nice story..I like ones with happy endings. I watched a 53 Hornet coupe for years until it disappeared one day. The owner said "Oh I lost your phone number" She gave it to a crusher.. UGH!

Prop the clutch pedal down with a stick or board under the steering wheel. Leave it that way as long as you can. While it's in the welding shop is a good time. Then when you get a chance, flush the clutch as mentioned here in past posts. You may not need to go through the pain of a new clutch disc. it ain't fun.. Make sure they guy that welds the floorboards leaves the removeable portion in the front or you will be confronted with MUCH pain when you go to drop .. ooopps .."remove" the transmission. it comes out through the floorboards, not under the car.

Dave w.

SuperDave

PAULARGETYPE wrote:

did some one say 'H A S H'

Hi Paul,

You never know who's Lurking!! Grinnnn.

Unknown

Dave: Argh! I hate hearing about stories like that. You may have noticed, if you checked out my page in the sig line, that I have saved some rather eclectic "projects" from the scrapheap... As the RedHead says, "PreWar funeral cars....it's a niche"



I have often thought about running an ad in the local paper "OLD CARS WANTED", but I fear I'd have to contend the folks who think their 86 Taurus counts, and is worth piles of the long green.



Tranny comes out the floor? REALLY? Tell me more....

Unknown

buggboy wrote:

Here's my 50 Brougham Cpe: Note the steeply sloped rear, where the Club Cpe has a more vertical rear window.







50 Brougham Cpe

Now see, I like the looks of this. It looks more like the sedan, with the sloping rear window and appears as though the trunk area is shorter-again like the sedan (or maybe it's the angle of the picture).

Unknown

herm wrote:

Jase- Your '50 Brougham Cpe looks just like my '50 Brougham 2-door sedan. Norm

Now see that makes me wonder, too. Is there a difference between a '50 Brougham COUPE and a 2-door SEDAN?



Russell

Aaron D. IL

Nope it's not just the angle of that picture you got it right and there is no "brougham coupe" just the Brougham 2 door sedan and the only thing "Coupe" about it is that is shares the Coupe doors. However there were 2 models of Pacemaker in 1950 the 500 model series and the 50A model series sometimes called "Pacemaker Deluxe" the difference is the 50A models had a bit more trim and some slighly nicer appointments but otherwise identical to all Pacemakers. Basically a Pacemaker with more options such as rear backup lights. Deluxe models were also available in '51 but with no separate model # designation....and not available in '52 Since the Wasp came on the scene. Step-down Pacemakers came on the scene in 1950 as an attempt to offer a slightly lower-priced step-down and sold pretty well Pacemakers were discontinued in '52 and the Wheelbase platform and drivetrain was given over to the Wasp models.

Unknown

Jase

Saw the plate on your Brougham... appears to be a 70 Texas plate... right?
While a War Bird ... the B26 was part of my Vietnam experience. Are you affilliated with the CAF? They moved thier museum from south Texas to Midland airport. Very nice set of buildings house the collection... include a hanger where routine to heavy scheduled maintenance happens. Fifi their B29 lives in there when she is at home station.

Local citizen can be seen here: http://www.rangerwingcaf.com/Ranger_Wingx.html

Just curious....

Cheers and clear skies

Unknown

Thanks for all the help and posts, guys. I've got one more for you: What's the difference between the Hornet and the Hornet Special (or Hornet Deluxe, I've sometimes seen it described as).

Geoff

Actually, the term "Brougham" was first used by Hudson in 1924-25-26, with the Hudson Super Six four-door models with Biddle & Smart bodies. These had cloth tops and rear quarters, down to the belt line, and were what you would call a "close-coupled" body, with no rear quarter windows. Then in 1927 -28-29 they added dummy Landau arms on the rear quarter panels and called them Landau sedans, aexcept for the '29 long wheelbase, which was called a club sedan. This was to distinguish them from the steel clad bodies of the standard Hudson and Essex coaches and sedans. The term coach was dropped in 1930, and Brougham used from then on to denote two-door models.

Geoff.

Aaron D. IL

Hornet Special was a model in '54 Only and was a slightly less expensive Hornet by about $150 less. It lacked crank vent windows and a back seat armrest. Had less trim too I think. It was available as a Club Sedan (same thing as a brougham) the only year Hornet came in that body type. I have not heard of a "Hornet Deluxe"

Unknown

Ken:



I am indeed affiliated with the CAF. I'm the Asst Maintenance Officer for National Capitol Squadron.NCS/CAF



Miinor nit: The B-26 in VN was actually the Douglas A-26 Invader. The B-26 on my pages is the Martin-built B-26 Marauder. Same type of plane (Twin engine midwing trigeared landplane), but still very different.



I know one of the pilots on the "Spirt of Waco", Joe Nemmer.



Yep, the plate is a 70 TX plate. FiFi is undergoing some *serious* heavy MX right now, they found a bunch of exfoliation corrosion in the wings. She's been down all year. I may be heading to Midland this weekend.





Sorry for my error in calling my 50 Brougham a "coupe". Henceforth t'will be known forevermore as a "Brougham Sedan". I hang my head in shame and humiliation that I have exposed my shameful ignorance in front of such an august gathering......

Unknown

In another response, the tranny in a 50 Brougham *Sedan* was said to come out the floor. True story? Reason I ask is that I still haven't gotten the shop manual yet.



Thanks to all...

[Deleted User]

This my opinion and some agree and others don't, but here it is. In 1953, the management at Hudson knew that the end was near, and a merge was inevitable. One way to increase profits from the sale of the company was to use up any and all extra parts in stock. By taking the Super Wasp interior, and side stainless, and using the vent windows with the friction locks in the Hornet body they created the Hornet Special. All they had to do was make the SPECIAL badge and move the Hornet badge a little higher on the front fender and make a glove box door that indicates Hornet Special. The drive train was all Hornet and options were available. Bothe the Hydro and the B-W were available. I was told that after the fire in the Hydro factory, when the Hornets were getting the B-W trans, most of the Specials were still getting the Hydro. But I won't swear to that. I have a coupe with the B-W and a sedan with the Hydro. Anyway, the Hornet Special was a new model made basically from leftovers!

Again most of this is my opinion.

Bob

hudsonguy

Buggboy,



I believe all of the stepdowns have a removeable floor pan, which makes transmission and clutch work a piece of cake. I put in an O/D tranny by myself, with no jacks required. It was quite easy, actually. I'm sure you'd still need a jack to lift an automatic transmission up from the bottom, but access is still much better from the top. You just have to kind of sit on the floor of the car, with your legs through the floor pan hole.

SuperDave

BJ__TN wrote:

This my opinion and some agree and others don't, but here it is. In 1953, the management at Hudson knew that the end was near, and a merge was inevitable. One way to increase profits from the sale of the company was to use up any and all extra parts in stock. By taking the Super Wasp interior, and side stainless, and using the vent windows with the friction locks in the Hornet body they created the Hornet Special. All they had to do was make the SPECIAL badge and move the Hornet badge a little higher on the front fender and make a glove box door that indicates Hornet Special. The drive train was all Hornet and options were available. Bothe the Hydro and the B-W were available. I was told that after the fire in the Hydro factory, when the Hornets were getting the B-W trans, most of the Specials were still getting the Hydro. But I won't swear to that. I have a coupe with the B-W and a sedan with the Hydro. Anyway, the Hornet Special was a new model made basically from leftovers!

Again most of this is my opinion.

Bob

Yes, Hudson was trying really hard to make something that would sell. They did have to make a new longer front fender stainless trim, since the Wasp had a shorter front fender.That piece fits only one year one series. Also the Specials had their own serial number sequence separate from the Hornet.I had a 54 HS Club sedan (Brougham) 25 years ago. I heard that it is in Michigan now. It had a Hydra-Matic. I recently bought a 308 from a junk collector that had removed it from a Hornet Spl. four door. That four door had a B/W transmission that is now for sale or trade for a Hydra-matic.. any takers?