308 into a Pickup

SuperDave

Someone just asked me what it takes to install a 308 in a P'Cup.. If someone has done this recently, give me a quick update on which parts I would need. I took one out many years ago and as I recall, there were all Hudson parts used ,nothing appeared to be fabricated.

Thanks, dave

oldhudsons

one thing that has to be addressed is the cooling system. In "the good ole days" we'd install a '41-7 H8 rad. but you probably can't find one now. Another thing to try & find is the steering gear from a '41-7 H8 as the PU has the 6 cyl. steering gear so not sufficient to handle the additional weight of the much heavier Hornet engine, esp. if you're going to use a Hydro. instead of keeping it stick shift.

SuperDave

In this application, we will be using the single lever transmission.

I am thinking I will have to use the stepdown flywheel, clutch, bellhousing and starter bolted up to the early transmission.

I had an early 8 cyl in a 49 stepdown years ago . The block had flanges brazed on it to accept the stepdown oil pan. When I got it, it had the early OD transmission in it with a homemade drive shaft. I took all the stuff out and put a stepdown transmission and drive shaft back in it to try and make it more correct. I seem to remember the starter was in a different location and I had to do some swapping of parts in that area. That was in 1972.. so my memory is really poor!

faustmb

Long term I intend to put a 308 back in my truck coupled to the GM trans that is already there. I'll be watching this thread and taking notes as well...



The bad part is I had a complete front end from a 46 C8 (control arms and steering box which I needed) which was sent to scrap a few weeks ago. That's what I get for leaving too much crap at my parents

Ol racer

FYI

Ive put Hornets and Wasp's motors always with hydro in a few pickup's now and found they practically bolt inplace, I made rear mounts up from the rear crossmember. The left side needs to be below & clear the pitman arm nut. I found the stock springs are sufficient.

Old hudsons brought up a good point on enhancing cooling.. The originals are not pressurized and the old honeycomb is prone to leaking. Suggest installing any modern radiator since there is plenty of room to mount something with the same outlets.

SuperDave

So far I know it will fit, use a 8 cyl radiator if available..I didn't know there was a difference in the steering gears. Since we won't be using a HydraMatic, perhaps that won't be a concern. I really need to know what combination of flywheel to transmission I will need. I am guessing the 308 flywheel, starter,clutch and bell housing. Mated to the 46-47 transmission..?? Same bolt pattern on both transmissions? same pilot shaft length? I think they are, but I'm just guessing. Front motormounts in stock 8Cyl. locations? Any throttle linkage issues? We will be using a 2BBL carb.

kamzack

Hi Dave,

10 years ago at the Natioional meet in Orlando. there was a 48/47 coupe about 1 or 2 cars to the left of your white pick-up(with the broke chrome fuel pump) that had a dressed 308 in it. If woner and car are still around, he maybe the person to talk to. I was very beautifully done.

Kim

Ol racer

FYI

I have a 'Parts Truck' that has a long narrow block motor. From what I can see someone (not me) slid it back to the original trans or used a stepdown Trans & clutch assy then bolted the front mounts down to 8cyl location. Hard to tell which Trans when filled with parts....

SuperDave

kamzack wrote:

Hi Dave,

10 years ago at the Natioional meet in Orlando. there was a 48/47 coupe about 1 or 2 cars to the left of your white pick-up(with the broke chrome fuel pump) that had a dressed 308 in it. If woner and car are still around, he maybe the person to talk to. I was very beautifully done.

Kim

Kim,

I was at the nats in Orlando, but driving someone elses 49 Super Six for door..two tone green. Which I now own and is repainted in a very noticeable peacock-ish Green..LOL I think the white Pcup you are refering to belonged to"Hudson Dave" the Wide Whitewall Dave,. One of about six Daves in the Orange Blossom Chapter! I don't own a Pcup but am trying to dig up information for another member that is considering the installation and needs to know as much as he can before taking the plunge..

Thanks, Dave ...one of many:)

SuperDave

Ol racer wrote:

FYI

I have a 'Parts Truck' that has a long narrow block motor. From what I can see someone (not me) slid it back to the original trans or used a stepdown Trans & clutch assy then bolted the front mounts down to 8cyl location. Hard to tell which Trans when filled with parts....

Looks restoreable to me!

I bet they used the early transmission. My best recollection is that the stepdown transmission is a bit longer. I base that on the 49 8 i had many years ago had a pre-stepdown engine and transmission in it when i got it. After installing the correct transmission, the obviously "home made" drive shaft was too long. Both the one that was pre-stepdown and the stepdowns were OD units, but I doubt that mattered.

I don't recall seeing any new holes in the front of the pickup frame, I removed a 308 from, so I guessed that the 8 cyl mounting holes were probably used.

But again.. all this was nearly 40 years ago.

I appreciate the inputs so far.. Just a bit perplexed by the lack of input from other forum frequenters. I would have figured someone has first hand, present day knowledge of the subject. A search of the past posts haven't turned up anything of substance either.

Thanks again..Dave w.:D

hudsontech

There were stories around, back in the day, of fellows racing Hudsons (not in NASCAR - local dirt track, good ole boy racing - REAL racing) would tow them to the track with Hudson pickups with 308's under the hood. Set up in such a way that if they dinged the engine in the race car they could swap out and put the truck engine into service.

So from that I'd deduce that the other thing I heard, and mentioned above, is that a 308 into a 46-47 pickup is near a bolt in. As is an eight - or so I've heard.





Hudsonly,

Alex Burr

Memphis, TN

http://hetclub.org/burr

Park_W

The swapout process is really pretty simple. I've owned a '47 Super Six with a 262, then a 308 in it, and the changeout was nothing at all. Assuming the vehicle is going to be used in "normal" service and not abused, I'd use the stepdown bell housing and single-lever overdrive tranny. The interference problem of Pitman arm shaft and wide block seems to vary from car to car, subject to manufacturing tolerances. You may not have to do anything at all there. Try it and see whether there's actually contact or it's so close that contact is likely. If it's too close, grind a little off the block and a little off the Pitman arm nut so you have 1/8" clearance. The motor mounts on these cars are pretty stiff, so there's not a lot of movement of the rear of the engine. As for cooling, just have the radiator recored with modern type core material, which transfers heat 50% better than the original. And you can use a thicker core than the original; the original tanks will accommodate it.

SuperDave

Thanks Park, That about takes care of my questions, He will have to use his original transmission,(non OD) but i don't think that will be any problem. The parts manuals say the flywheel assy is the same on the commercial (trucks) as the later step-down (10 "). So between the two clutch assemblys, he should be able to mate up the parts.

Thank you !

Park_W

That'll work, Dave. And as you indicated, the '47 tranny bolts up to the stepdown bell housing just fine.

hudsontech

Park W wrote:

That'll work, Dave. And as you indicated, the '47 tranny bolts up to the stepdown bell housing just fine.

Just has to make you believe that the engineers at the factory were thinking thoughts like "let's make this a bolt up - because somebody is sure going to try it sooner or later!!!"



Hudsonly,

Alex Burr

Memphis, TN

Park_W

I wonder if anyone's tried fudging the front and rear motor mounts to the right about 1/4" so the block would clear the Pitman arm nut. You'd also have to shim out the little bracket that secures the left end of the clutch cross-shaft. Think it would cause driveline vibration?

LanceB

I have a 308 in my truck. The bell housing sits on the cross member using the existing mounting hole, the front mounts are put forward onto the frame and what Bill A told me to do was to notch the angled rib on the motor to clear the pitman arm. Has been working fine for me.

Park_W

Lance, does that engine sit down a bit more than most at the rear? It seems to me on the ones I've seen, it's the lower (oil pan) flange of the block that inerferes with the pitman arm nut.

LanceB

Park, I will try to take a close up picture and post it but the nut sits just above that flange, it is close though. The engine is a 1952 308 if that makes any difference.

Park_W

As far as I know, the block width at the rear is same from'48-'56 (the'55-'56's do have some other differences in the block casting).

Ol racer

FYI

I slid the motor over & down at the rear slightly then made Hydro mounts out of hard rubber blocks from a forklift. Couldnt find Hydro mnts, but everything worked out very well. I think there are several good options mentioned to clear the pitman...