Update Martz Convertible Brougham

Browniepetersen

Thought I would send in some photo's that you might not have seen for the 1939 Martz. We ran into a bit of a challenge this week as we examined the frame for the car. With a mock-up of the seats in the car, because so much material has been cut out of the body (12 to 14 inches), I am looking over the windshield. We need to get some space (about 6 inches) of floor space to mount the seats. There are three options: Heavy modifications to the original frame, fabricate a tube style frame or adapt a current vehicle frame (i.e. Small pick-up frame from the early 90's) to fit. We also need to reinforce the frame to accept the sucide doors that will need to be added because old guys like me can no longer "jump" over the body to get to the seat. Any good suggestions????

Browniepetersen

The five photo limit caused me to post another page.

[Deleted User]

Brownie: You asked for suggestions, I would not create suicide doors... as you said old guys need access... get a portable apple crate or stepstool and using it to access the car... IMHO the cars original customization should be preserved.

On the issue of seats... as you know there are a multitude of open sports models from the 50s and 60 which have bucket type seats... would it be possible there is a properly oriented seat which could be adapted? As for the issue of being a tall gent in the seat... take the stepdown approach and create a welded steel box that is specifically designed to accept the seat you choose and then weld this seat well to the exisiting frame... now you have a step-in with a step-down seating arrangement.

Thanks for sharing the progress

Browniepetersen

Thanks Ken, we are thinking along the same lines. I plan to have the overall "look" be the same as the current car. Have had some pressure to change the front hood look but it is not going to happen.... I have a 92 Chevy S-10 frame with power disc brakes that is near the same wheel base and we are considering using that. It is currently stripped (body hardware and engine/tranny gone) and we took some measurements today and we will be able to box the frame as you suggest somewhat "stepdown" style. We mocked up some wood and set the seats (using 1960 Thunderbird frames) and that placed my sight line just above the 3/4 windshield view. Unless something happens this is the direction we are taking. Plan to finish disassembly of suspension/brakes and stuff and get it blasted so we can box and modify the frame. We are currently planning to use the 265 Chevy engine that was in the car and link it to a 700 R4 tranny and use the loaner rear end from the S-10. That way the 60's Star Wire Wheels will bolt right up......

[Deleted User]

In case you did not already know... the 265 had a 2X4 option that works well especially with a .060 overbore. Our drag car (56 Chebby bread truck) was powered by an engine with these mods backed by a HYDRAMATIC. All worked in H Stock in 1964. Good Luck with your car.

bent metal

I don't know how historically important this car is to you? But it sounds like your going to make some big changes. I imagine (but I don't know), that this car had a really low seat. I had an Austin once and the seat bottom was only a couple of inches off the floor boards. I would think that's what this car should have in it. If that still would not be enough then I agree with the idea of "stepping down" the floor. But if it's a Hudson frame, the frame rail is going to go right down where the seat would be. Like you mentioned, major frame work to make the rails go around where the seat would be lowered to.

I think you'll figure it out. If you haven't already.:) It's a cool car, I hope you can stay close to it's original design and still be happy with it.

As for the doors, I vote Lambo, no doubt.;):D Just kidding.:)

Browniepetersen

We did consider the Hudson 308. We also considered an engine from the early 40's and even used an old motor to take some measurements (note the photos above). With either Hudson engine we would need to extend the length of the engine compartment. However, from my historical search I learned that the car spent a lot of time "in work" and only had a short life span on the road. Some of the work on the car was not very high quality (i.e. the 14 or so inches sectioned from the middle of the car and welding all the body parts into one mass was questionable work) and in addidion to returning the car to the road some of these things will need to be redone just to make the car safe. The last time the car was on the road it was powered by the chevy engine. I have a good knowledge base on these engines and a good supply of major component parts (and antique speed equipment parts) already in the shop from a previous life. I like the dependability of both engines, however, the supply chain of (hot rod and new) parts for the small block chevy is much more available and since I can do all the mechanical work with a strong comfort margin I decided to keep the engine it had when it was last running and have a little fun with it as well. Once this car is on the road, I plan to have it as my daily driver.

bent metal

Maybe you could have something done to the motor to tie it into the Hudson. Like write "Hudson" on the valve covers or something? Or a Hudson air cleaner?



Just a thought.:)

Lee ODell

Browniepetersen wrote:

We did consider the Hudson 308. We also considered an engine from the early 40's and even used an old motor to take some measurements (note the photos above). With either Hudson engine we would need to extend the length of the engine compartment. However, from my historical search I learned that the car spent a lot of time "in work" and only had a short life span on the road. Some of the work on the car was not very high quality (i.e. the 14 or so inches sectioned from the middle of the car and welding all the body parts into one mass was questionable work) and in addidion to returning the car to the road some of these things will need to be redone just to make the car safe. The last time the car was on the road it was powered by the chevy engine. I have a good knowledge base on these engines and a good supply of major component parts (and antique speed equipment parts) already in the shop from a previous life. I like the dependability of both engines, however, the supply chain of (hot rod and new) parts for the small block chevy is much more available and since I can do all the mechanical work with a strong comfort margin I decided to keep the engine it had when it was last running and have a little fun with it as well. Once this car is on the road, I plan to have it as my daily driver.

I have a polished Magnuson 220 double supercharger, I bought new, with 2 side draft carburators for small block Chevy. With twin H style air cleaners that would look real good in your car. It was made to fit under the Corvete hood. I had it on my 64 El Camino and kept it when I sold the Elky. I've thought about doing that with a Chevy powered stepdown. It is an impressive set up.



Lee

Browniepetersen

Lee,

Send me some photo's, I'd like to see what it looks like....



HETbrowniepetersen@readytek.net (Yes, drop the HET)

bent metal

Browniepetersen wrote:

Lee,

Send me some photo's, I'd like to see what it looks like....



HETbrowniepetersen@readytek.net (Yes, drop the HET)

Well don't leave us out.:eek:



We wanna' see pictures too.:D

Lee ODell

OK, I'll gather up some pictures and the old catalog. Don't know how to post them so I'll have to find someone to do it, or mail them to someone to post. Maybe Guy can do it the next time I see him.



The mild street motor, 355 ci Chevy, made short of 425 HP on the dyno. It never got over 180 degrees usually 170. On the hwy, gas mileage was 24 mpg. in a 3800 lb El Camino with driver. This was about 1984 or 85.



An engine builder wanted to build a motor for me for the El Camino nationals. With this blower and two larger sidedraft carburators on that motor, it put out 623 HP. Unfortunately Rick's El Camino was totaled. A drunk ran into the back of him at a stop light. He was going to automotive trade school in Arizona and needed a car. The only one I had to send him was my El Camino. So off came the blower, put a 4 barrel carb on and he used it for the next 2 year. Then he bought the Elky after finishing trade school.



After joining the club and seeing the twin-H set up, I thought how neat it would be to make a twin-H supercharged small block stepdown. I don't think there would be to many small block scoffers with twin-H style air cleaners on it. It's been a lingering idea of mine for a long time. I even considered it for my 47 PU. However, I think it would look better in a stepdown.



It's nice to dream. Lee



P.S. Somewhere I have a video of a race where the car next to me did a 180 spinout mid track when his transmission locked up. I thought he was going to hit me, but didn't.

[Deleted User]

Someone already mentioned it, but I would look at the S10 frame. Disc brakes and tons of mod parts for these everywhere. I have a nice running '02 S10 w/ 2.2L, a/c doesn't work right, that I need to get rid of $2,000. :-) lol My ol' 67 Triumph Spitfire has some low seats, though with my body, I'd want a bit more cushion then they had originally! lol