electric fuel pump
This is becoming a nuisance. Last Sept I installed a gear driven electric fuel pump that was purchased at Fifth ave parts(Randy Rundle) in Kansas. The Hornet ran well all year with no fuel starving. In May I bought a back up to keep just in case from Summit for alot less money (Carter P60430). Just got back from overseas and went to start the Hornet, NO HUMMING from the elec pump. I played with the battery and ignition switch and the pump came alive. Three days later without touching the car, same thing. Could not repeat the fault,once the motor engaged until 3 or4 days of 100 deg temp passed. Now, some of you have these pumps. Well because Carter only makes 12 volt gear driven(garator) pumps, I suspect that the 6volt battery on a 12 volt pump does not have enough inital torque to spin the motor? Randy Rundle said that is possible, and suggested shooting wd-40 into the motor to free the gears. Yea right!Summit parts confirmed my theory, as well as Federal -Mogul. Park, I intend to change to a Rotary Vane.What part # is yours. Would it be a GP4070?
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Comments
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I'm useing a 6volt Carter rotary vane CRT-P4259 from Summit Raceing , never have had any problem with it in several years BUD0
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Ron, I can't find a number on my 6v Carter rotary vane pump. But unless you just can't stand the sound of a "click-click" pump, I wouldn't mess with the Carter rotary vane unit. There are a couple of really nice, small
6v and 12v pumps out there that go in the fuel line like a filter, cost a lot less than the Carter rotary vane unit and don't have the problem of restricting the fuel flow that the Carter does. Unfortunately I don't have known good numbers for these pumps.0 -
Thanks guys, I just ordered a GP4259 from Summit. The gear driven pump is fine on a 12v, but I was skeptical at first,on a 6V, and my fears seem to be valid. I don"t have a actually working mech pump( a "shell" is present however) so I"m not too concerned about a need to bypass the elec pump. I am curious about Walts BWarner solenoid pump. Maybe these are more reliable then Airtex.0
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Different number , maybe Carter / Summit numbers but that's the pump I have . Noisy little booger but turn the radio on or talk to someone and you don't notice it . When you mount it use a thick rubber insulater between it and the car helps . BUD0
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I put a volt meter on the12v gear driven pump sold by Fifth Ave Parts. I had a suspicion that there is a big loss in voltage from the battery through the ignition then to the gas tank area where the pump is mounted. The Optima batt.= 6.5v but at the Carter pump is reads only 5.3v. I believe that is why there is inconsistancy. Am I wrong? Also I have 14 or 16 wire from switch to pump, Does any one guess if I used 12wire what my voltage increase might t
hen show at the fuel pump? I believe in November that Scott said he used one of these in his Terraplane. Noticed any thing,Scott?0 -
You shouldn't need anything heavier than 14 ga. for that current and distance.0
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Ron
Not being able to see your installation, I can only guess why you are having intermittent problems.
My "Guess" is you have a grounding problem.
The voltage drop you measured can be attributed to a resistive ground. The pump should be grounded at the installation point. The ground is either via mounting hardware to the pump body or a specific ground strap between the pump and cars body.
If you have a DVM or millimeter, use it to measure the resistance between the case of the pump and it’s mounting point(s). The resistance measurement should be ZERO ohms. If the resistance is any other number, thoroughly clean the mounting points on the pump and the mounting points on the car body. Re-accomplish the resistance check.
When you achieve a measurement of ZERO ohms between the pump and the mounting point you can recheck the voltage drop. The voltage drop should be minimal.
If there continues to be a resistance reading or voltage drop, there is some other component that is creating resistance which needs to be corrected.
Good Luck0 -
I have been having problems w/my Carter electric pump also. It is a new installation, (it is NOT the GP4259, but the smaller round one that looks like a longer round metal in-line fuel filter...forgot the #).
Anyhow, it did not want to run after the car sat for about a month, but when I lightly tapped it w/a plastic hammer, it started right up.
I thought it was the wiring, so after a few weeks I put jumpers on both the hot and ground, but still it would not start w/o tapping it.
I suspect rotten gas is sticking it up inside. Just a guess, though, but I don't think it is a ground or other wiring at this point. Plus, the installation is only about 6 months old, so a bad ground is unlikely, given how I installed it.0 -
Ken, I am tring to assertain whether this 12 volt Carter pump is right on the verge of not getting enough juice from a 6 volt system. The car runs great if the pump lights up on start,but the pump on occasions, fails to come on when sitting for a while. Can't attempt to start if the pump wont come on first. The six volt pumps have worked well in the past, but the solenoid type from Airtex have a bad rep. I will try a ohm test. I have alot of wire I think I will run a ground back to the battery, see if that helps. Park, Ken thanks. PS its 14 wire from the ign switch through a 15 amp fuse, past a toggle switch under the dash, right to the pump. Ground is on the pump mounting bolt, fastened to the sheet metal of the trunk riser above the gas tank.0
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Ken, 0 ohms. even with a #10 wire I ran the ground to the battery, Volts still5.5 with the ign in the run(on) key position.Also tried a wire from the batt - there fore bypassing the ign switch, showed 6.3 volts. So much for wire size Thanks Park.I was told by the seller that gas evaporates and causes the gears to stick.I suspect these pumps just don,t have enugh instant torque to overcome the sticking or need a relay. Junkman is yours brass or white metal with a silver filter that came attached by rubber hose?0
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RON , most small 12 volt motors will run on 6 volt but not at capacity , they run slower and weaker , you've been on the ragged edge all along with it . Wasted time/work messin with it . As far as plunger/ diaphragm type pumps go I"ve never had one last very long . The Carter vane pump has been around a LONG time and has a good reputation for life and dependability whether the 6v or 12v version . Your idea of running a ground back to battery is good , I have a terminal block on the firewall with multiple connection screws that I run things to and then from it to battery post, keeps everything up handy to get at . You could hide it under the dash but makes it harder to check things Another thing I do is solder all conections possable , and especially those down under the car. BUD0
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" Ken, 0 ohms. even with a #10 wire I ran the ground to the battery, Volts still5.5 with the ign in the run(on) key position.Also tried a wire from the batt - there fore bypassing the ign switch, showed 6.3 volts"
So, the switch is creating the resistance.Your comment about adding a relay is spot on... do that with your new pump.
As Bud stated... you are at the edge runing the pump on 6 volts. The new 6 volt pump should correct the problem.
BTW I am running the same pump you just purchased. No problems with pump starting. It is wired with a braided strap connected between car body and the pump mounting screws. I also added the bypass check valve Park W recommended.
Good Luck with the new pump.0 -
I also had to replace my Fifth Ave. pump this spring. It was installed on my 51 coupe and ran great when I parked it for the winter. I called Randy and he said that the gas now days will gum up the pump and to run WD-40 through it. I did and and still would not work right. It was intermittent, like something electrical was bad inside. It was around 3 years old. He said to put a gas stabilizer in the fuel before parking for the winter.0
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Gee, thanks guys for all the input. Scott, that is what he told me. The reason for buying these pumps from Fifth Ave was due to the sales pitch that they pump anything. What did you replace it with?0
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Why don't you try a 6v pump that is designed for use in a 6v electrical system? I've used Airtex 6v in the past and got several years of service from them. I now use a 6v Carter vain pump as the only pump on the car and have nad no problems.0
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