Clutch problems

rockin tom

Hello all!



I've got a problem with the clutch of my 52 Pacemaker. We did a complete engine overhaul and finished about 2 month ago. On the clutch disk we replaced the old cork to new corkparts. There is a shop here in germany, who does the rekorking for motorcycle clutches since 20 years, he did that job.



But the clutch is rubbering, everytime i start driving. The vibrations you can feel all over the car. It turns a little better while driving a longer distance, but i doesn't stop complete. These vibrations have been there allready before overhauling the clutch, but not as hard as now. We filled the hudson clutch fluid in and out again (i got these little bottles with the correct fillment, it think 6 ounces), refilled, but no bettering.



What could be wrong? Or is it normal, that the clutch is "plucking" that way when it is new recorked?

7XPacemaker

SOunds like the clutch disc is warped. Did you check the disc before you had it recorked?

Jon B

Calling Doctor Doug! Calling Doctor Doug!



(Rockin Tom, have no fear! Our resident expert on Hudson clutches will certainly offer you good advice -- as soon as he arrives here!)

Clutchguy

Sounds like the pressure plate and/or the flywheel are not straight or set-up correctly. Also,what kind of clutch fluid are you putting in?. Out of a metal can you have to open is not recommended. You might try adding some extra fluid to see if it helps. Unfortunately it will probably have to come back apart and check the parts for proper set-up.

Jon B

That's Doctor Doug! Heed his words!

Huddy42

I agree with the Dr, sounds like pressure plate was not set up.So many people look at them and say"it looks OK"

Jon B

Rockin Tom, did you know about the 1948 Hudson Super Six which is displayed at the Bullenstall museum in Kiel? http://www.oldtimerauto.de/index.html It is not near you, but you might want to go there sometime. Herr Gert Lohse is the owner. He owns many vintage automobiles but is especially happy with his Hudson, which he purchased from the family of a deceased member of our local Hudson club in the area of Washington, D.C. The car is in very good condition. Herr Lohse comes to the large auto show and swap meet in Hershey, Pennsylvania each year and always stops to greet us at the Hudson club's hospitality booth there!

rockin tom

I saw nothing bad on the clutch disc when i gave it to him to build it in. It was looking straight, lying on my desk...



The clutch fluid i got with the car from the owner, he bought it from a classicparts-dealer in usa especially for his car. There were 3 little plastic-bottles of it with labels, on which were printed the hudson sign, "clutch fluid, 6 ounces is the correct charge" is written on them. I will make a photo of them and post it here.





@john B: Yes, i know that car. Really beautiful one. I had a little email-contact with him a few months ago... There are some more Hudsons in Germany and Switzerland, last year in may we had a little meeting at a bigger Classic-car-meet in switzerland. We had 4 Stepdowns, 2 Terraplane, 2 older Hudson, 1 Essex and a "Hash" Metropolitan there! I must search for the fotos, was a real great scape near the old buildings and the switzerland-countryside...



Also there was a big report of a Hudson Hornet Coupe in the german classiccar-Newspaper "Oldtimer Markt". The car is located in Eichstätt (about 70 miles from my location. I had some Email-contact with the owner, but we since today we couldn't come together for a little meet, i think we are able to arrange that some day...

Uncle Josh

Check the rubber snubbers on the center of the driveshaft. If one or both of these are in bad shape, it will do what you describe. Also, really bad motor/tranny mounts will cause problems.



Also, if the spline between the two driveshafts has ever been apart, make sure the front two universals are in alingment.

Clutchguy

Clutch guy wrote:

Sounds like the pressure plate and/or the flywheel are not straight or set-up correctly. Also,what kind of clutch fluid are you putting in?. Out of a metal can you have to open is not recommended. You might try adding some extra fluid to see if it helps. Unfortunately it will probably have to come back apart and check the parts for proper set-up.

Something else to check,and that is the cross-shaft bushings in the bell-housing. If these are bad,they will cause the clutch to chatter. These shafts are usually worn out and has to take up the wear/slop in the bushings[or used to be bushings] to apply pressure to the t-Bearing then to the fingers. It applies at an angle and creates the chatter. I always recommend to do all of this at the same time. It is so much easier to do this job-ONCE.

rockin tom

Good news: The problem was solved by adding some clutch fluid! Now it runs great!!! I couldn't believe that this is the cause for that big consequence. I'm glad that it was so a little cause...



Thank you for all the tips, espessially to Doctor Dough (Clutch guy) I gave them all to my repair-specialist and he promised me, that all these things are checked and all right. I don't think that he's lying to me and i trust him becaus i know him about 10 years now and we are good friends, too. It was a good opportunity to check if all your tips will be conform with his knowledge.



One funny thing is, that i gave the 1952 shop procedure manual to him about two years ago and i forgot that. So he allready had most of the informations he needed for changing and fixing the clutch. And i wanted to buy the shop manual because of my problem without remembering of that one i bought about 5 years ago and gave to him... kind of stupid... :rolleyes:



One question i still have: What would happen if there would be too much fluid in the clutch? Is it possible to overfill it?

Huddy42

Too much oil and the clutch will slip .

SuperDave

Make sure your input shaft is not bent or worn. Also that the pilot bearing in the flywheel is good (You do have one, right?). I had a Ford dealers service department leave one out of a F150 Pick up. Now THAT had a chatter! I have overfilled a clutch and had it drag. Acting like a torque converter? Other times it would slip. but never caused chattering. I have had excellant results using the proper amount of DexronIII. I would start be checking transmission and drive shaft mounts as suggested above. When it's right the Hudson clutch is wonderful.

rockin tom

The input shaft is all right, also the pilot bearing in the flywheel.



Today morning i started up with the hudson and it chattered again, when i want to leave first time in first gear!



I saw that it had loosen a little bit oil ( some drops ), i think from the clutch.



After pressing the clutch pedal a view times while engine is running it turned better. After driving 2 miles it doesn't chatter anymore. I believe, i still have not enough fluid in it or i lose too much of it...



I think that could be the only cause for that problem, right?

Geoff

Perhaps we are losing something in the translation here. Can you please be a little more specific as to what you mean by "chatter". Do you mean that the car is shuddering when you let the clutch pedal out when first moving? Or is it making a noise when the car is being driven? Or what?

Geoff.

rockin tom

Maybe... The car is just shuddering, there are no noises.

Geoff

Sounds to me like you are losing the oil from the clutch. either a bad gasket or the seal was damaged when installing.

rockin tom

I believe that's true. Yesterday we drove a little distance, the same thing. The first times letting the pedal out there are these vibrations. After driving a view miles it turns better and better until it's gone. I'll have a look on, the next days to see where the oil is running out.



I also will try to refill it when the engine and all of the fluids are cold. Last time we refilled after i drove a little distance while everthing is warm, then there were no vibrations any more. The problem is only upcoming, when i start up cold. Maybe thats not so when i have refilled the clutch fluid before starting up. If that is the fact, then i have really the only problem that i loose the fluid, all other parts are definitive all right then...



Sorry about my english, it's not the best but i'm glad that i'm able to describe the problems i have, sometimes there could be some misunderstanding because of some wrong translated words from german to english by me.



Thank you for your patience and i hope that nobody is nerved of my sometimes wrong described problems...

rockin tom

Problem is solved.

After changing the clutch disc with new cork again (the other recorked one lost a view of iths cork-parts, bad work...), the throwout bearing, the clutch housing with pressureplate it works fine.

There was also a trouble with the front main bearing on the transmission, we changed it also into a new manufactured part. Now it runs great! No slipping, nearly no vibrations (just a little if i push the accelerator too much so the engine speed is a little too high, while clutching in, especially driveaway on hill, but i think that's normal). Maybe we have to add some fluid again.

Now i'm happy again with my 52 Pacemaker, can enjoy my rides without worrying about my tranny, which is in excellent condition. We checked all other parts, gear weels and bearings, syncronisation rings, all fine and ok...