ls2 in my 41 pickup

bellbigdawg

next project on my 1941 bigboy pickup is to set up my motor mounts, trans mount, and rear end spring perches. on a modern fuel injected motor, does the motor have to be tilted back, oh say 2 degrees, like on carberated motors, or can I set it up to be dead flat? would some angle be required for the driveshaft / u-joint operation? any sugestions? after this is handled, I can finally start on the body and paint!

Ol racer

FYI



You should set in the motor & trans in as an assembly probably at the same angle from the donor car then take a rough measurerment for your driveline angle from Trans to Rear Joint. On a street car you need the pinion angle up few degrees but equal with both front & rear U joints to prevent vibration.

There is a wealth of Info out there for novice Setting driveline angles by typing 'pinion angles' in your 'Search' Window then use a $5.00 magnetic Protractor available anywhere. If off few degrees later taper Shims are avail to put under the spring leafs to adjust more or less angle,

Lee ODell

bellbigdawg wrote:

next project on my 1941 bigboy pickup is to set up my motor mounts, trans mount, and rear end spring perches. on a modern fuel injected motor, does the motor have to be tilted back, oh say 2 degrees, like on carberated motors, or can I set it up to be dead flat? would some angle be required for the driveshaft / u-joint operation? any sugestions? after this is handled, I can finally start on the body and paint!

I'm glad to hear about your motor installation again. It has been awhile. Just yesterday I was wondering how you were coming along with your project.



Since the engine is fuel injected it will not matter what angle the engine sets. Make it easy on yourself installing it. It does not have to set at 2 degress like a carburated engine. I think it would look better setting closer to level.



For example: If you set the motor and transmission in at 2 degrees then set the pinion angle up at 2 degrees. If you set the motor and transmission in level (zerro degrees) then set the pinion angle level (zerro degrees). Whatever angle the motor and transmission is at the pinion angle should be at the same angle.



The driveshaft u joints should have a little angle to them. However, ideally the transmission output shaft angle, and the differential pinion angle should be parallel for a street car. For drag racing the angle would be alittle different. I'm assuming this will be a street driven truck.



I would love to see pictures of your installation. Lee











.

bellbigdawg

I have to change my info, moved to Idaho. so I'ts been since the beginning of the year since I have been able to get back to the hudson project. been gathering parts and finishing rear end and 4 wheel disk brake (pridemore front/cadillac rear). Ol' racer.. it's a crate motor, adapting a 4l80e to it, so no donor car. however, maybe I'll find a willing 2005 corvette owner that will let me stick an angle finder on his motor to see what it is. maybe a corvette forum....good idea! Lee... I would totally agree with you on it being level or close to. I'll bet a corvette is level! frame, suspension all powdercoated, strange engineering 9 inch rear end, all stainless arp bolts for drivetrain and suspension. etc. that's why this is taking so long! plus, just paid for a 41 deluxe steering wheel with perfect horn ring, that was an ouch! just need 40 - 41 turn signal switch and I'm done with the hudson parts! I'll send pics as soon as I get the motor/trans in place for the mount welding.

bellbigdawg

moving into level concrete floor tomorrow. probably start welding up mounts next weekend. I understand as long as the trans output is not pointing straight at the rear, and you match angles trans and rear ( engine 2 degrees down, rear 2 degrees up, etc.) than you have it licked. still trying hard not to cange anything that can't be unbolted, and stock stuff bolted back on if ever wanted. ordering a 8 inch dual diaphram power brake booster monday so I can start working on the brake pedal pushrod lenght and location. mounting power booster and remote fill master cylinder under the cab in the area of the seat back area, with the bracket bolted to the inside frame rail. doing away with the clutch pedal, and using the lokar kit to use the stock column shifter with the new automatic. running hard stainless line for vacuum to the booster. nice that both the ls2 engine block and trans case are aluminum, makes jockying around to set up mounts less physical. thanks for the input!

Lee ODell

Correct, the trans output should not point straight at the pinion. No, Engine up 2 degrees and pinion up 2 degrees if that's the angle you choose. That keeps both front and rear U-joint angles the same. If trans and pinion are pointing at each other then the angle needs to be changed. "This is because with a zero working angle, the needle bearings within a U-joint will not rotate causing brinelling and premature wear of the U-joint."



Also, looking at the top of the engine-trans, from the front pulley center to the trans output center, it should be parallel with the trucks centerline. I mention that because sometimes, to clear an obsticle in the engine compartment, the engine is moved over a little bit, but the trans is not. If the engine needs to move alittle to one side then the trans should move in the same direction, and at the same amount as the engine to be parallel with the trucks centerline. That keeps both front and rear U-joint angles the same.



I believe a good working angle between drive shaft and trans and drive shaft and differential be 2.5 to 3.0 degrees.



"The two working angles should be equal within 1/2 of a degree on high speed propshafts and 1 degrees on low speed propshafts.

The working angles themselves should not exceed:

4 degrees on highspeed propshafts (2700-3500 RPM). Propshaft speed = Engine RPM/dTransmission gear ratio.

5 degrees on low speed propshafts (1800 - 2700 RPM). Propshaft speed = Engline RPM/Transmission gear ratio."



There are three ways to correct the U-joint angles.

Changing the pinion angle

Changing the transmission angle

Changing the engine height



"Ideally, the rear U-joint working angle should be set to be 0.5 degrees less than the front working angle. This way as the pinion nose rises under acceleration or with the suspension under a load, the front and rear working angles will stay be within specifications."



Alway look forward to hearing about your progress. Wish I could be there. Lee



Quotations form: http://www.vibratesoftware.com/html_help/html/Diagnosis/Propshaft/Propshaft_Angles.htm

GrimGreaser

Heh, why stop at an LS2 when you could have mortaged your house and bought a supercharged LS9. Nothing like a 100 horses and ft/lbs per liter...



Good information to have on driveline set-up, though. All this info for my already crowded brain to keep track of...

bellbigdawg

now that's the information bottom line Lee....I think I will set the motor level, rear .5 degree down. setting the truck up to be perfectly level at the running boards and frame when all together, trying to make things easy. we will see when I start with making the mounts and where the motor / trans want to be. any problem with the stock hudson truck frame (was in perfect no rust condition when got) will hold up to 500 horsepower and an automatic trans? hudson frames seem pretty stout! grim greaser.... this truck will be my daily transportation, bike hauler and tow truck.waiting for the nice 34 to 36 t-plane coupe that I will get next after truck is done. would love to see a 700 plus horse motor in that resto rod! with modern LS series based motors, probably get 20 miles to the gallon with all that power too!

Lee ODell

I don't think you will have a problem with the truck frame. Your real problem will be, when all that power eats up your rear tires and you have to sell me your deluxe steering wheel and horn ring to buy replacement tires. Hee Hee



Have a good day. Lee

bent metal

Awesome information Lee!



Thanks!:)

[Deleted User]

Let's see some pics! Sounds like a great project man. Nothing I can add about the set-up that hasn't already been said, so I'll just drool thinking about it. 700hp sure sounds nice! These days you can throw on a modern supercharger or turbos and get large hp with little engine mods and get great mileage. Wish I could do that with my Hemi, but I'm found it cheap, so I'm going on style and hp and giving up the mileage. Oh well.

Please post some pics soon though, I know we all are dying to see your project.

bellbigdawg

figured I'd wait on the pics untill I get the block in and mounts fabricated. that will be real soon. however, I can never get my big 'ol pictures to download to this forum! the truck frame, cab and bed are in my brothers garage, all the other parts are here. it's a 5 mile run just to work on my truck! I was used to a big garage and storage room, now got a 3/4 car garage, thus the situation. just got the strange engineering gear case, axles and posi/gears all done and set up, as soon as I get the spring pads welded on and housing powdercoated, it's a one hour job to finish and mount the rear end. the disc brakes for it are done. the front suspension and disc brakes are done, just need to powdercoat the swaybar and brackets. next...fab mounts for the LS2/4L80E, then a custom stainless fuel tank with internal pump is after that.

bellbigdawg

now I can post pictures! here's a shot of the freshly powdercoated frame for my 41 pickup. this was about one year ago, chassis all together now

Lee ODell

Your powder coated frame sure looks good. How is the engine/trans instalation coming along? Looking forward to seeing it.

Lee O'Dell

bellbigdawg

Lee ODell wrote:

Your powder coated frame sure looks good. How is the engine/trans instalation coming along? Looking forward to seeing it.
it was going good untill I realized I have a crap welder. so now I'm trying to get a nice miller 220 volt one so I can get the mounts welded. another setback, but I'm still shooting for less than one year to driving it.dang, 1800.00 for welding up motor mounts and trans mounts! but I'm a firm beleiver in if you want it done right.......

Lee O'Dell

bellbigdawg

somehow my reply wound up in Lee's quote....still some bugs to work out!

Lee ODell

I don't like bugs either. To bad you don't live closer, you could use my 220 Miller welder for free.

Lee O'Dell

bellbigdawg

just getting used to the new system. you get very used to something and BAM! it all changes!
Lee...
I wish I was closer! that would be a very good deal and very kind thing to offer!