lwb vs swb stepdowns

harry54

How do swb cars handle compared to the lwb cars ? Are there many interchangable parts ? thanks

[Deleted User]

The diffeance is from the firewall forward, inclding the firewall itself.
On the "Short Car" the front bumper is about 5-3/4 inch's closer to the
windshield. Under the hood the firewall will have a divot or setback to make room for the motor. Most of the rest of the car will have parts interchangeable
with the "Big Hudson". And a lot of the items on the front would fit too.
Like motor parts ,wheels radiator . Thing's like that. I cannot say if you would notice a differance in driveability. The bigger car would obviously ride a litte
better. There is also a slight differance I recently noticed. Being a big guy it would matter to me. The steering wheel on the small car sits up higher then the
big car. They seem to have tilted the steering column upward on the small car as they moved the steering gear,
Hope this helps,
Roger

hudsontech

Handling is probably in the eye of the beholder (or driver, in this case). My experiences would lead me to think a SWB car would handle a little better than a LWB due to the shorter length of the SWB. Tho there isn't all that much difference, what, 7 inches I think.

As for parts everything that can be swapped should be except for the front sheet metal. That's where the difference is - I know, the wb is different too, but that's because of the shorter nose on the SWB cars.

Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN

Uncle Josh

The steering gear is different, lighter construction and different ratio. Drag link is shorter. I have a NOS master cyl bracket for the SWB only but don't know where the difference is. Fenders and hood are shorter. Difference is 5 inches

SuperDave

IMHO.. I like the way the SWB drives.. seems to be lighter steering? But I like the ride of the LWB.

[Deleted User]

Front brakes are differnt on most SWB Stepdowns. Norm

hornet53

harry54 wrote:

How do swb cars handle compared to the lwb cars ? Are there many interchangable parts ? thanks

Only way to tell is to own both!

7XPacemaker

I own both- I think that the SWB handles better than the LWB does. However, the steering on the SWB is terrible compared to the LWB cars. As was said earlier, the brakes on the LWB are larger. When I have the time, I want to put a LWB steering box in my coupe. This has been accomplished by a few guys in the club already...

53jetman

Front brakes on the '50 thru '52 Pacemaker were different. '52 Wasp & ;53 & '54 Super Wasp used same brakes as the Hornet

Jerry

Kdancy

I have been going to post on this subject since I was going over the 53 Hudson Car Distribution Department Bulletin for the shipping weights and such. On the SWB Super Wasp club coupe vs Hornet club coupe, there is only 75 lbs difference in shipping weight. And the front to rear ratio breaks down this way--

Super wasp --- 3661 curb weight 2048 front (55.9%) 1613 rear (44.1%)
Hornet

---

3741 2064 (55.1%) 1677 rear (44.9%)
80 lbs different in curb weight
Surprised the Hornet has slightly better front to rear ratio.

dwardo99

I think the SWB may handle a bit better than the LWB myself, but it's hard to compare two cars that are so old and each having different deficiencies. On a SWB car with wide modern tires the steering effort is beastly at very slow speeds.

Uncle Josh

You could dig down in the sock and buy the correct tires.

7XPacemaker

I had radials on my swb for a little while, then when back to Coker bias plies. It still is a bear at slow speeds, but NOTHING compared to the radials. I know Walt swears by radials, but I will not for the reason stated. I would think that it would be next to impossible for some of our older generation folks to drive a stock SWB with radials. They couldn't parallel park nor back into a parking place without half killing themselves. I know that it was tough for me and I am a younger fellow.

[Deleted User]

Regardless of steering , personally, if I planned on driving a car any good distance then I would used radials. They are much safer, handle better, bigger footprint, made better (more top quality manufactuers) and more available. It is like night and day. Radials are the single best performance item you can do for an old car.

Browniepetersen

nhp1127 wrote:

Regardless of steering , personally, if I planned on driving a car any good distance then I would used radials. They are much safer, handle better, bigger footprint, made better (more top quality manufactuers) and more available. It is like night and day. Radials are the single best performance item you can do for an old car.

Too your comment you should add the safety factor...

However, with that said, sometimes the radials are not appropriate. I have raidals on two of my cars (39 convertible brougham) and bias on two (36 English Hudson and a 60 El Camino). I love them both for different reasons...

dwardo99

I could never figure out what Hudson was trying to accomplish with the SWB cars (as much as I like them). As pointed out, they are hardly any lighter than the longer cars and could not possibly have been a lot cheaper to build. It must have cost quite a bit to develop them too, as there are quite a few differences. It would have made more sense to offer stripped-down versions of the LWB cars, like the Hornet Special.

Kdancy

7XPacemaker wrote:

I own both- I think that the SWB handles better than the LWB does. However, the steering on the SWB is terrible compared to the LWB cars. As was said earlier, the brakes on the LWB are larger. When I have the time, I want to put a LWB steering box in my coupe. This has been accomplished by a few guys in the club already...

I would like to explore this a little bit more. Has anyone here ever done the lwb steering box swap into a swb hudson? A long time Hudson owner and mechanic friend of mine says it can't be done.

Aaron D. IL

dwardo99 wrote:

I could never figure out what Hudson was trying to accomplish with the SWB cars (as much as I like them). As pointed out, they are hardly any lighter than the longer cars and could not possibly have been a lot cheaper to build. It must have cost quite a bit to develop them too, as there are quite a few differences. It would have made more sense to offer stripped-down versions of the LWB cars, like the Hornet Special.

Hudson always tried to offer a lower-priced car, starting with the Essex and then the Terraplane, and the 112. The Pacemaker and later the Wasp and Jet were mostly an extension of that philosophy. If you think about it, offering a lower priced car had worked for them in the past when sales slipped. With Essex sales Hudson pushed up to #3 in the Industry in 1929. The Terraplane turned around their fortunes in the Depression. When the Pacemaker came out in 1950 it sold pretty well that year and looked like it might work again. For your average city dweller you don't need nor maybe even want (depending on the neighborhood) a large high-priced or particularly fast car. The smaller engine gave slightly better fuel economy too. More people after the war were moving off farms and into the cities.
The problem was Hudson was not going to compete in the low-priced market against volume producers like the big 3. Hudson had big production capacity but not the way Ford did. They would've been better off going up-market and fighting off Buick which was Hudson's price-range anyways. The Jet went against the philosophy of compact cars in general in that most buyers think smaller cars should be cheaper cars. (less car=less money).
As far as handeling I've heard others in HET say the short WB cars handel better and that their favorite combo of course is to wedge a Hornet motor in a Pacemaker/Wasp body. That's something Jim Moran the Courtesy man used to do with the Pacemakers he took in on trade. He slapped Hornet motors in them and put on a badge that said "Baby Hornet" to help their re-sale value.

Kdancy

BABY HORNET ---- I love it!!!

7XPacemaker

Dave Kostansek has done it. Another fellow with a Hudson Pacemaker convertible has done it as well. I haven't researched it too much yet, but it has definately been done. I may try and do it this winter if time prevails...

nick s

when you get it all figured out, let me know. For years I've been toying with the thought of doing the opposite.

Unknown

Don't have much experience with the swb cars, however I have driven several lwb cars. Some drove very nicely, some drove like a Bulldog Mack in the mud! I drove the 12,000 mi original 53 Hornet coupe that Bill A. bought from Jim Harmon several yrs ago and resold to Jay Leno. You could park that car with 2 fingers and no power steering! We had a customers 54 Hollywood in a while back and it took 2 men and a boy just to get it into the shop! also no p/s. This car was also lowered. My point is, that while a lot of these cars drive decent, a lot of them have front springs that are sagging and the wheels are toed in at the top so instead of pivoting, the tires are being dragged sideways. A simple check for this is simply to check the distance between the top of a front tire to the edge of the fender opening. You should be able to get your fist between them with your thumb at the top or bottom. Good springs and alignment will go a long way towards making these or any car a pleasure rather than a chore to drive.

7XPacemaker

I was talking to Mike Gajdek in Hershey a couple of weeks ago. He and I were discussing this very subject. He also owns a SWB car. He had said that he had to use parts from six swb steering boxes to make one good one. I am unfamiliar with all of the differences between the swb and lwb steering boxes, but I have been told by many individuals much smarter than I that they are significant.

Nevada Hudson

There is a road test in the 1952 Motor Trend comparing the Hornet and Wasp.

Unknown

Here's my 2 cents. The swb cars use a shorter shaft & mast jacket as the box sits a little closer to the firewall. Also it mounts at an angle, turned towards the right about 15 degrees. It also uses bushings instead of needle bearings inside.

Kdancy

Thought I'd bring this topic back up for further discussing. Anyone have a before and after experience with a lwb to swb conversion?

RL Chilton

I had forgotten about this thread. A very good one with lots of opinions, and very subjective subject matter!

[Deleted User]

To make swb or lwb cars steer easier just set the front end one degree less on the caster than what the manuel calls for. When I installed rack and pinion I had to set both front wheels to max caster to eliminate bump steering as I had it set for easy steering with radials. Toe in with radials must be zero. I got 80,000 miles on my first set of radials. Set on car now has 60,000 and still look new. If you make our national check out my car. Walt

PAULARGETYPE

THE WAY TO MAKE THE SWB CARS STEER EASYER IS PUT POWER STEERING ON AND THE TROUBLE IS GONE THEY MADE SWB CARS IN 54 I KNOW WHERE THERE IS ONE I WILL HAVE THE ARM FROM THE STEERING BOX TO THE POWER ASS. CYL ( IT IS DIFFERENT )