help identify motor

schillaz

I found this ol motor but I dont know much about it. I cannot find any serial numbers on the front pass side of the block and there is no tag under the head along the block on the driver side. I see it has the reinforcing ribs so it should be a 308. Im just wondering what year and how to tell.

It was in an old dirt race car.

Any thoughts?

ski4life65

A 308 with studs and a 232 head..........maybe you hit the 7X Motherload;)

[Deleted User]

Pull the head and you can really tell what you have.

schillaz

51hornetA wrote:

Pull the head and you can really tell what you have.

what do i look for that would tell me its a 7x? size of valves?

RL Chilton

schillaz wrote:

51hornetA wrote:

Pull the head and you can really tell what you have.

what do i look for that would tell me its a 7x? size of valves?

That would do it. It would have a larger combustion area in the head, as well, but you would another head for comparison. If memory serves, I'll have to double check, but exhaust valves would be 1-7/8" and intakes are 2" . . . I think.

[Deleted User]

When you pull the head look at the area in front of the valves it should have a deep relief cut into the block. The Inlet valve is 2" and the exhaust valve is 1-11/16.

Russell is right the 232 head will have its combustion area machined to match the block and bigger valves.

Pull the head post some pics and we can see what you have.

schillaz

Ok i will have to wait until spring to take the motor to a location i can work on it, its in the back of a machine shed now.

I will definitely post some pix.

thanks

**Its gonna be a long winter now for sure! ha

schillaz

Going to finally pick up that mystery 308 motor with the 232 head. When i get it home i will pull the head and take some pix and post them.

schillaz

I cannot believe it......hit the jack pot.

Check this out, I finally have the motor in my possession. The dude actually took some time and sealed this motor up the best ive ever seen. He coated the cyl walls with grease, used cardboard for a head gasket, cardboard for at intake/exhaust gasket. And it actually worked. The cyl walls are beautiful not even a lip at the top of the cyl walls, hardly any carbon build up on the pistons............and best of all the intake valves are 2 inch's.......i cant sit still, im so damn excited.

heres some pix

essexcoupe3131

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

was 1 of those days

Mike

GrimGreaser

Great googly moogly! Talk about a lucky Friday the 13th.

[Deleted User]

You lucky lucky man. Is there a green with envy emoticon? :sick: That will haev to do!

schillaz

Have you guys ever seen one of these oil pans? do you know what its for or from? it seems to be stamped not welded??

Marconi

That's a Hash oil pan, 55 or 56.

schillaz

Marconi wrote:

That's a Hash oil pan, 55 or 56.

Hash or Nash? do you have any pix i can look at what engine this oil pan would be on?

thanks

Lee ODell

What a lucky find. Congatulation. I have a feeling you might be just a little excited. Have you had a chance to see what camshaft is in the engine? What are your plans for it use?

Have a great day.
Lee O'Dell

schillaz

No i dont know what cam is in the motor yet, i will post it when i tear in to it.

here are a few more pix.

ivanz62

Are the pictures with the yellow ruler a 232 standard head?

ivanz62

Like to know how deep the block relief is below the gasket surface where the bore is closest to the valves. Jack clifford told me they were sometimes as deep as 5/16". A standard 55-56 block is about 3/16".

schillaz

ivanz62 wrote:

Like to know how deep the block relief is below the gasket surface where the bore is closest to the valves. Jack clifford told me they were sometimes as deep as 5/16". A standard 55-56 block is about 3/16".

Sure, I will take some pics of that for you tonight and post them here.

(if anyone else needs something feel free to ask I will try my best to supply pictures)

dougson

It looks like a 7X to me. The two inch intake valves look original and the relief differentiate it from a pre-56. Nailing down the date will certainly tell you if it is an early block. Interesting in that it did not have the twin-H setup, but Twin-H was separate from thr 7X option. Like others have suggested, remove the cam and check its numbers. Also, a '56 would have hydraulic lifters. One note, in '56, Twin-H was standard on the 308.

Unknown

schillaz wrote:

I found this ol motor but I dont know much about it. I cannot find any serial numbers on the front pass side of the block and there is no tag under the head along the block on the driver side. I see it has the reinforcing ribs so it should be a 308. Im just wondering what year and how to tell.

It was in an old dirt race car.

Any thoughts?

Curiosity on my behalf.... who was the dirt track racer and what track was this engine raced? Several Hot Hudson dirt track cars were raced in the midwest. If you are willng to say what part of the country did you find the engine?

Many of those engines were based on the replacement engines Hudson sold. The Hash pan has the advantage of allowing the engine to sit lower in the body. Relief machining in the 232 head was done by the engine assembler with whom I am familiar. Look forward to your answer.

schillaz

dougson wrote:

It looks like a 7X to me. The two inch intake valves look original and the relief differentiate it from a pre-56. Nailing down the date will certainly tell you if it is an early block. Interesting in that it did not have the twin-H setup, but Twin-H was separate from thr 7X option. Like others have suggested, remove the cam and check its numbers. Also, a '56 would have hydraulic lifters. One note, in '56, Twin-H was standard on the 308.

As the story goes the car had a twin h but the car rolled over on the track and broke it all to hell so they just threw on a single carb? who knows how true that story is but?

the casting numbers on the block just below the distributor is D143 (april, 14th, 1953) would that be correct?

more pics/measurements

ivanz62

This is not a question of what year the block is, but what "relieving" was done to the block to use the 232 head. As I said, the 55-56 blocks had the increased relief that measures about 3/16".
A real 7X with a 232 head (and a 54 or earlier block) was specially relieved and the 232 head was specially machined as well. Exactly how these two items were altered is somewhat "lost in the sands of time". This may be a chance to know. And one must be aware that the cast number on the camshaft does not necessarily tell you what cam grind it is. The same blank was used for a early 7X grind, a conventional late Hornet grind, and a hydraulic lifter grind.

ivanz62

This is great. Can you clean a little and use a straight edge with you calipers to measure depth at the arrow indicated point on the photo attached? Thanks.

SuperDave

Jack Clifford built a lot of these engines back in the day. I think he used 1/2" studs on all his rebuilds. Sure wish i could buy a few of therm at the price he was selling back then!:whistle:

brumac

Dave,
I have a Jack Clifford 308 rebuild on a 53 block that came with 7/16" headbolts. Valves and relief is standard so it indicates that it was a run of the mill rebuild. I haven't had the cam out but it is a ordinary running 308. Jack would put in 1/2" studs if you ordered them as well as a lot of other mods.
Bruce

schillaz

ivanz62 wrote:

This is great. Can you clean a little and use a straight edge with you calipers to measure depth at the arrow indicated point on the photo attached? Thanks.

ivanz62

Thanks for taking the time to do this--we'll call it a 1/4" relief.

dougson

I measured the relief on my '56 "7X" rebuild. We did not alter the factory relief and it is 7/32 (=.219).

schillaz

Lee ODell wrote:

What a lucky find. Congatulation. I have a feeling you might be just a little excited. Have you had a chance to see what camshaft is in the engine? What are your plans for it use?

Have a great day.
Lee O'Dell

I was able to turn the motor today and look at the numbers on the cam, it says 309742.