Transmission Adapters

Unknown

Has anyone here had any experience with Bentson Adapters in Minnesota. Wilcap no longer makes the adapter to convert to a dry clutch. My trans buddy found this company and chatted with them. They seem to have done this several times before and have a kit for auto or manual. They say the T5 five speed works the best. I don't know anyone who has a five speed in a Hudson. A Chevy Saginaw with OD can be made to work with some shift linkage mods which is the way I will probably go to keep the appearance stock. Just thought I would see if there were any thoughts or comments here.

RL Chilton

I understand the want for a different tranny with modern day driving, although the 3 speed Hudson manual tranny with overdrive is a fine unit. But, why would you want to utilize a dry clutch? That's actually like downsizing for no reason and no benefit.

SamJ

Seems like this thread keeps coming back up. If you don't like the idea of Hudson's perfectly serviceable "oil bath" clutch, why bother with a standard tranny at all? Get an adapter plate and stick a GM 700R4 in it. :dry:

dougson

I'm reposting an earlier post rregarding this -

Well here it goes- Wilkap had not been advertising the manual trans adapter but when I called them (about a 1.5 year ago) they said that they could make one up, and they did even though it took several months. Concerning the GM T5 for the S10/Blazer 2.8 V6 versus the 4 speed T10, the bell housing is the same for T5s that are not integral with the bell housing (separable). The problem with the T5 is the input shaft length. More on this later. Wilkap made up the flywheel and clutch. The clutch is a specially built 10.5" with the T5 S10/Blazer spine dimensions (1", 14 spline). They also supplied the reduction gear starter. I found an aluminum 4 speed Chevy bell housing for the 10.5" clutch. The pressure plate and cover is a light-weight aftermarket diaphram style.

I'll report further progress later.

My engine is a '56 and the crankshaft flange in the '56 is drilled for both standard and automatic. It turns out that the Hudson Bronze pilot bearing is axactly the right size for the input shaft on the T5. Wilkap sends a pilot bearing as well, but I didn't need it. The flywheel bolted to the flange perfectly. The sarter engages the flywheel just right. Next was installing the bell housing. The Wilkap adapter fit perfectly on the block and the bell housing the same. The adapter comes with an eccentric in the top right corner because of interference with a bell housing bolt. Make sure it is correctly aligned before mounting the bell. I had to grind some material off the bottom inside of the bell because the flywheel teeth were chaffing the high spots (see pic below).

Update:

It turns out that the starter supplied with the kit interferes with the bell housing and I had to make an 1/8" spacer for the starter to clear the bell. Also, the adapter plate is too wide and I had to trim both sides to make room for the steering link and the exhaust. The big issue is with coming up with a way to operate the clutch. Forget a manual linkage. I tried everything and nothing worked. I was advised to use a MCleod hydraulic bearing which goes around the bearing cap tube on the trans. I used their 14005-20 kit ($450) and a spacer ($50). It's in the car but I've had problems with it. Still working on it. My advice, don't do this unless you have a lot of patience and are willing fork over a lot of money.

russmaas

Not too impress with Bob Bendtsen's adapter parts...what do you think?

This come in from them to me last month for the panamerican race car

JasonNC

Don't be too surprised if you question his handiwork if you don't get a good cussing. He's not the friendliest person in the world once he's delivered the product he's selling.

russmaas

Yeah is wasn't good...he was pretty nasty

JasonNC

Huh. He always treated me well.
I'll drive over and try talking with him if you'd like.
He needs to get this one right for alot of reasons. :dry:[/quote]

Unless you're willing to turn the other cheek, I wouldn't bother. You don't get to be that big of a jerk overnight. But if you do, let us know how it turned out. Be sure to take a picture of Russ' adapter plate with you. You might want to take some earplugs also.

Unknown

The reason or reasons I am looking into this is because of my experience so far with the wet clutch. When I went through the engine I had the clutch rebuilt. At that time I was going to go with a dry clutch as I just felt the origional clutch was funky and I didn't want to fuss with it. No other car I know of has a clutch like this so that should tell you something. The trouble to convert it at the time was and still is a big deal. I was talked into staying with the wet clutch. I had it rebuilt and when I got it back the pressure plate was done wrong. Something to do with the springs. It was corrected and I put it in. Seemed to work ok but when accelerating hard when I would shift to second it would slip then grab. Used the oil that came with the kit and tried changing it and different amounts still got the same. Some problems came up with the motor so I pulled it and the clutch looked to me to be pretty worn and burned for 5000 miles. I am hardly an expert on this oddball but my experience overall has not been good. I have had manual trans cars my whole life and never had these problems. Take into account parts are getting scarcer and builders are even rarer, one has to consider the options. When the motor is done it will have even more power so going through the hassle now of changing it will eliminate problems now and 10 to 20 years down the road IMHO.

Marconi

The other car I know of that used a wet clutch was Rolls Royce! Something ain't right with your car. I've seen many Hudson trans input shafts with a twist in them from 'overactive driving'!

Lee ODell

Marconi wrote:

The other car I know of that used a wet clutch was Rolls Royce! Something ain't right with your car. I've seen many Hudson trans input shafts with a twist in them from 'overactive driving'!

My uncle told me the input shaft snaped on his 51 Hornet w/Twin-H back about 1956. I suggested he might have been in a drag race? A smile came on his face.

Unknown

One of my best friends who has a transmission shop has been researching this. He talked with Bentsons and got with some connections he has on transmissions. The adapter kit will run close to 1000 shipped, A Muncie or Saginaw 3 speed with OD will be about 800. Driveshaft will have to be shortened and shift rods lengthened. Then the cost of a clutch and the parts to operate it. Most likely hydraulic. Considering labor will be free, I am betting we will be in the 2500 to 3000 range just in parts by the time we are done. Imagine not having a friend in the business and just taking your car in to have this done? WOW! Explains why most don't go this route either staying with the origional or converting to automatic.

[Deleted User]

The only time I ever had a Hudson clutch fail was a 48 Commodore 8. Never slipped or chattered just on the way home one day on a hill it started to slip. Barely made it home, took it apart and there were only about 1/3 the corks left.
I dont see how it even worked as long as it did.
Put in a comlete clutch and flywheel from Doug Wildrick and its like new again,
Roger

hudsonguy

I've got close to 40,000 miles on my Dr. Doug clutch, and it still performs flawlessly. Like Hudson308 pointed out, you can't just replace part of the system. All the pieces have to work together. He resurfaced my flywheel, and rebuilt the clutch and pressure plate, and sold me a new throwout bearing. I can't imagine a smoother operating clutch. I simply have to change fluid every 5000 miles, which is no more than a 15 minute operation.

To answer your question why no body else used a wet clutch (Ford, Chevy, etc.), it's because you can't make as much profit as you can from a run of the mill dry clutch.

Unknown

I have heard much about Doug Wildrick but at the time he was only rebuilding clutches for people who brought their car to him. For many of us that is not possible so I had to go another route. If he was willing to tackle my clutch and can assure me it would hold with a heavily modified 308 I would consider it. This conversion I am looking into is quite expensive and labor intensive. I would rather put the time and money somewhere else.

dougson

Here is an update for my '54 Hornet T5 transmission install. I finally got it set up correctly and for the first time since 9/08 (and proabaly a long time before that, it moved under its own power. Here's the set up. The hydaulic bearing is obviously out of view (in bell housing). I was able to use the factory clutch pedal.

Kdancy

That's interesting, have you had it on the road and how does it perform?
What shifter are you using?

dougson

Not on the road yet, moving around in the garage, no hydraulic brakes yet, need to install PB booster. The shifter is a Hurst designed for the S10 T5.

[Deleted User]

Dougston,

Could you pm or email me with your phone number. Would like to discuss your setup. We are doing the T5 on a race car heading for England.

Randy Maas
maasfh@ntslink.net

[Deleted User]

Dougson,

Somehow I deleted your message, please send again

Randy

Kdancy

Dougson, did you ever get this on the road and running correctly?

Ol racer

FYI
Here is a Person that made a Dry clutch, Linkage, and Adapter, for a T6 into a Hornet for a Club Member in Cleveland.... They have mated other Vintage Flathead 6's with Standard Tranmission and apparently enjoy the challenges.....Vintage MetalworksAtwater Ohio 330 322 3102
dfarwell09@gmail.com

TwinSupercharged

jfhallercoxnet → dougson
Dougson, I am very interested in your conversion, as I am starting the rebuild on my 1951 hornet 308 and I am planning a T5 addition. I have had conversations with Welcap and your issues did not come up. Did you get any feed back? I would like to carry on further conversation with you via e-mail and pictures with your modifications and hyd clutch. Fred at jfhaller@cox.net. Thanks

11:40AM Comment

MikeWA

I don't know where you are, but I have an S-10 T5 with bell housing that I'd sell for $250. Its an early model with mechanical speedometer connection, and S-10 version has the shifter forward so it doesn't interfere with the seat. The T5's out of Camaros, Mustangs, etc. have the shifter much further back, and won't work in a Hudson unless you put in bucket seats.

I was going to do a T5 conversion, but seems like my ambition is waning as I get older- Now am just going to get the OD working right, and let it go at that. I'm in western Washington, halfway between Portland and Seattle. Email mmittge at compprime dot com.

464Saloon

I was looking into a number of combinations when I wanted to convert to a dry clutch. The 5 spd conversion would have been the cheapest and easiest and as much as I prefer a floor shift I just couldn't picture it in the car. I am trying to keep the car as original appearing as I can yet still have some modern upgrades. I changed the rear end from the 4.59 to a 3.73 and I have the OD on a separate toggle switch. Wow what a difference. The car drove so much better. I wasn't happy with the clutch so I had Doug Wildrick do it this time with all the HD improvements. Look forward to getting it back together and seeing how it works with the new engine upgrades.

dougson

Update on T5 - Got the '54 roadworthy by last April, drove it all summer with no problems. The shifting is very smooth (actually smoother than my '10 GMC Canyon 5 sp), gives a wide range of gears for local and highway driving, and cruises at 60 at just over 2 grand. The car is on several websites, I've included one.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.582194878499561.1073741827.126016844117369&type=3#!/photo.php?fbid=582375111814871&set=a.582194878499561.1073741827.126016844117369&type=3&theater

Kdancy

Dougson, it is the same picture for both links--
Really nice car!
Looks like with all the work you did to put the T5 in, one might be better off with the 200R4 conversion to get od?

dougson

I am a stick freak, T5's in all three machines. Will have to break down though 'cause GM no longer offers standard shift in trucks (or anyone else apparently). Boooo.

bob ward

GM no longer offers manual transmissions?????

Richie

Dougson, Nice looking car and nice work on the conversion. I grew up about 18 miles from Belchertown in Springfield. I went to Belchertown many times in my 50 Merc back in 61. Lots of nice orchards and a quiet town. Brings back nice memories. Richie.