acceptable center steering play

hoggyrubber

while working on the frontend of my 53 hornet i was wondering about the center steering pin. it has some play, but i noticed the one on my parts car has way more play. i didn't know if it would warrent a change now or i should wait, i hate to mess up the boots on inner tie rod ends removing them later. they are off now and i have new tie rod ends to go on soon.
i took some measurements today and the pin has .014" play at top wiggling back and forward. this translates to .060" up and down movement and the end of arm where inner tie rod ends are attached. this was done without anything connected. i am kind of of the mindset of don't fix what ain't broke, but i hate to have this apart and not repair if it has too much wear since engine and everything is out of the way. anybody have any thoughts on this?

[Deleted User]

Hoggyrubber,
I don't know what the actual measurement of play should be, but several years ago when I was having my car inspected, the mechanic felt there was too much play in the steering, so as I was taking a machinists course at the local trade school, I got a kit and rebuilt the center steering. Once it was rebuilt, the play was exactly the same as before. The mechanic said, "Well, maybe that is normal for these cars."

So, I would say, if it's not broken, don't fix it.

Geoff Blake

[Deleted User]

If you are on a level road, hold the steering wheel straight ahead and if the car goes left or right you have something worn in the front end. To check center steering ass'y, jack and place jack stands under the car, then lay under the front end with your head to the rear, then grab the tie rods close to the center steering and try to move up and down, if it moves you have worn bearings in the support housing and maybe the pin is worn also. Parts are available. Walt.

hoggyrubber

thank you both. my whole front end was shot and the car has sat for years. i am doing the king pins and tie rod ends now. that location you described is where i have the .060" movement. i see Mr. Maas has rebuild kits, and i have seen others. i guess when i saw how much play the parts car had when taking off the shock mounts, i thought i have a long way to go till it gets this bad! still it's prob not going to get any easier than now, everything is off and my car is 3 foot up in air and i can sit under it to do it. having said that i would like to avoid what happined to Geoff!

Geoff

Bear in mind that these units have roller bearings, which have play when new. It's easy enough to drop the arm off and check the condition of the pins and rollers. If there is no detectable wear in them , leave it alone. Make sure you lubricate regularly.

lostmind

Sometimes you need to put shims in between the housing
and nut ,even with a new pin and bearings.Worked for me.
Roy

Courtesy Man

If the pin is OK, I sell a center point bushing to replace the Torrington needle bearings. With new lock nut the cost is $30 plus $5 shipping. If you have questions you can email me at : HET gtkristi@copper.net or ask here how it worked for them. Gert Kristiansen, Deseret Chapter.

shadetree

I REPLACED THE LOOSE ROLLER BEARING FIT WITH GERT'S SPECIAL PLASTIC BUSHING SEPTEMBER 1995 AND NO PROBLEMS SINCE. THE 51 HORNET ONLY HAD 50000 ACTUAL MILES AND WOULD SHIMMY, USUALLY WHEN ENTERING THIS ONE PARTICULAR BRIDGE, EVEN REMOVED THE GREASE FITTING. THE BUSHING WAS A HAND PRESS FIT AND REMOVED ALL THE LOOSE PLAY. THE CAR NOW HAS 68900 MILES AND NO CENTER POINT PROBLEM. IT WORKS GREAT FOR ME. MELVIN

Lee ODell

Press Kale told me he has put 90K on his stepdown with Gerts bushing and there is still no looseness. Good enough for me. I bought one for my 52 Hornet, yet to be installed.

Lee O'Dell

hoggyrubber

thank you everyone for the info. i will disassemble and check it out. i just need to finish the other stuff i am doing on the frontend and such, i can't start too many things at once! also thank you Gert for the info on your bushing you sell looks like it's the right price.

hoggyrubber

sorry to drag this back up. i took this apart on a spare front end i have been dissasembling for parts. i removed the needle bearing assembly, it was a little different than i was expecting. is this what the gert bushing replaces? and it's a hand press fit? does it get greased? just curious. i emailed the courtisy man but just wondered what everyone else did. i have yet to remove the one on the hornet i am working on, it doesn't have near the play this one did.

[Deleted User]

That roller bearing is what some folks replace with a solid bushing of brass or nylon.
I would think they would still need lube though. I'm not sure as I've never used a non original one but assume that type would need to be pressed in.
I did have a couple aftermarket repair kits that fit on the outside of the centersteer pin . I tried one on a 51 stepdown once and put about 10,000 miles on it. Still was tight as new when I quit driving it.Don't recal what they were called but it went on quick and easy. Ten minuets and you were done.
Roger

Lee ODell

I was expecting a difficult job and took the bracket to a friend that has a press to remove the needle bushings. I have little strenght anymore but I was able to push Gerts bushing into the bracket by hand except the last 1/16" and used his press to push bushing the rest of the way. The bushing has a grease hole slightly off center to line up with the grease fitting.

"Check the position of the hole on the bushing". When I got home I realised the bushing hole didn't line up with the grease fitting. Another friend was there and he used a 7/8" socket and pushed it out by hand and I turned it around and pushed it back in. I still couldn't push it in all the way. Jairo used the socket to pushed it in the rest of the way by hand with ease. Now the hole lines up with the grease fitting. Because of the slot on the outside of the bushing the lube grease would have gotten to the hole and inside of bushing anyway.

Since I struggle carrying 25 pounds, most anyone else should have no trouble pushing Gerts bushing into bracket by hand. It is an easy job.

Start pushing.
Lee O'Dell

Courtesy Man

Lee, glad you were able to get my bushing in with relative ease. You are correct in the grease hole not needing to line up right with the Zerk fitting as long as the grease groove is in line the grease will travel toward the hole. Actually the pin is not the reason for greasing as much as the washers need it. I think you will agree the hard part of the replacement process is removing the housing from the Hudson and then removing the old pair of Torrington bearings - this is where a press is needed.
Stacy emailed me with some questions:
Yes the bushing replaces the T. needle bearings
Hand press fit or I use a plastic 1 lb dead-blow plastic hammer.
Zerk is replaced and greased - its a tight fit - so hand greasing may be easier - air powered grease gun may pop off with so much pressure.
The washers are re-used and in fact may need additional washers to keep any up- and down movement minimal.
Oh and I can take PayPal - and have several bushings in stock.
Thanks for your interest, Gert Kristiansen

hoggyrubber

sounds good. i would like to get one. can i just send payment to email you have listed?

Courtesy Man

Yes Mr Hoggy R. I believe you just go to your PayPal account and put in my Email : HETgtkristi@copper.net- drop the HET prefix.
Give it a try - I will then receive an email from PayPal about your payment and your shipping address, Gert

hoggyrubber

looks like it went thru ok. just wanted to make sure i sent to correct email, some have a different email for their paypal account. thanks again, stacy

Richie

Courtesy Man wrote:

If the pin is OK, I sell a center point bushing to replace the Torrington needle bearings. With new lock nut the cost is $30 plus $5 shipping. If you have questions you can email me at : HET gtkristi@copper.net or ask here how it worked for them. Gert Kristiansen, Deseret Chapter.

Gert, I'll mail you $35.00 for your kit through paypal tonight. You can PM me and let me know that it went through OK. Thanks, Richie.

hoggyrubber

since i had my hornet up in the air doing clutch work i replaced this center bushings with the Gerts bushing and it was real easy. i thought i might have to let it sit around a year or two more before i replaced it!

Lee ODell

After installing Gerts bushing, the pin, bushing, washers and shim were lubed. I had a little vertical movement but no piviting movement. The bushing was perfect fit on the pin. I was lucky the pin was not worn so the pin did not need replaceing. At first I used feeler gauges to determine the thickness of shim and came up with erronious .012" thickness needed. That size shim made it too tight. I used a dial indicator on a magnetic base to determine what thickness shim to instal. It needed .009" to remove vertical movement. The idler arm turned easily and no vertical movement. MacMasters catalog has any thickness shim or combination you will need, and now they also have the shims in stainless steel. I installed the shim on the pin before installing the original washers and idler arm. If you put the shim between nut and bottom washer, the bottom washer still bottoms out on the pin's shoulder and you will still have vertical movement. Since the washers have a rubber ring in them do not put the shim between the Idler arm and washers. I used the old nut until I was satified the right thickness shim was used for the idler arm to have smooth movement and no vertical movement. When I was satisfied, then Gerts new nut was installed.
I hope this information will be helpful.
Lee O'Dell

Kdancy

Does Gert still post on te forum?

Park_W

I don't think I've seen anything in this thread about taking the slack out of the steering gears at the end of the steering column.  Be sure the steering wheel is centered, then access the adjustment screw under the hex-shaped cover accessible under the LF fender.