1917 Hudson Super Six Racer in the UK

Unknown

Howdy

After the resounding success I had thanks to many participants on this forum finding out about what turned out to be the 'Beano' Suburban, I have found some pictures of another Hudson that I took 18 months ago at VSCC meetings at Prescott and Loton Park that you might like to see and share information on.



This one is listed as being a 1917 Super Six with a 4900 cc / 299 cui motor driven by James Colins.



It would appear to be in an immaculate condition suggesting a recent rebuild/restoration.

There can't be too many racing cars built in 1917 even in the USA, I believe my grandfathers were fully occupied representing their countries by taking pot shots at each other on opposite sides of the line somewhere near Arase at the time, so I hope this car will not be too difficult to identify.

I'd be interested in knowing any of it's history, I understand there may have been as many as eight similar racers and that 5 of them were entered for the Indy 500 in 1919, I am wondering if this car might be one of them.

Relevant answers maybe credited and used in a forthcoming blog.

Thanking you in anticipation of your answers.

Ralph Colmar aka Art Tidesco
Bristol, UK

Ad Free Blog: psychoontyres

hudsonsplasher1

Thanks for the pictures. Love those 17's

Unknown

I've been looking at some photo's of the Hudsons that took part in the 1919 Indy 500 and it looks like the vehicle I photographed above does not have the same kind of radiator cowling, I am beginning to wonder if the vehicle I photographed falls into the recreation / replica category.

Can anyone tell me if the chassis used on the 1919 Indy Hudsons might have been a stock item used on regular road going models ?

paulrhd29nz

The Rad on the Collins 17 is from an old Peugeot.
The frames were all Modified. Shorter wheel base. Engine move back for better weight placement.
If you google Ira Vail, or 1917 hudson race car, you will stumble on a fellow in the UK that is recreating an exact replica of one, down to the last well research detail. I cant remember his name right now, I have sent him parts for his project.

There are lots more photos of the collins car and other hudson race cars on the site
1916-1929 hudson supper six groups(at) yahoo.com sub form -Hudson race cars.

Paul

paulrhd29nz

Look here, this is what he is doing.
http://www.3dengineers.co.uk/projects-hudson-six.html

Unknown

Thanks Paul for your info on the Rad Paul been looking at a lot of photo's to nail that :-)

Thanks also for the yahoo and 3dengineers tips :-)

Cheers

Ralph aka AT

oldhudsons

'17 was the only year the Hudson factory actually entered cars in racing. I'm not sure how many they made but there were several. Vail was one of their drivers.
There was one of the original factory racers in the Lindley Bothwell Collection in Woodland Hills, Calif. for many years but he traded it to Bill Harrah for another car. It was sold out of the Collection after Harrah died.
The last time I heard of it it had been bought by a Japanese business man but the car still remained here in the U.S. in storage, I believe in the Pacific Northwest.
I took photographs of it at Lindley's, probably 30-35 years ago, it sure was interesting as was largely original. I think it had dual downdraft carbs & a BIG exhaust pipe going all the back to the "fishtail" rear end.
Hmmm, see if I can find those photos, if not lost!

Unknown

If you find them I'd love to see them 'ohs' :-)

[Deleted User]

I stumbled across the 3dengineers webpage doing a google image search for boat tails. Quite the talented group of people, to say the least. Well worth 30 minutes of surfing.

oldhudsons

Art - I was unable to find my photos of the Bothwell/Harrah's '17 Hudson racer.
However if you look on p. 51 of Butler's book you'll see most of the page is devoted to these factory racers inc.: 1. a photo of all 4 of the racers together
2. list of the names of the drivers 3. a para. telling what the factory did to soup them up 4. shows one being put into a custom made railrad car used to transport them.
You'll see the forementioned dual exh. pipes running from the engine clear to the end of the "boattail" body.
At one time there was a race track in Riverside, Calif. called Riverside Raceway. In the '60s they had in conjunction with the races a big car show & we Hudson owners were invited. They paid us $ (can't remember how much) for each car we'd bring. We were able to muster 6-8 cars & the $ was used as "seed money" to start the So. Calif. Chapter, HETs first one.
They told us we'd get to drive our cars around the track but reneged however they did let Lindley lap the track with the '17 racer - he was timed at something like 75-80 mph & that from a then nearly 50 year old car that WAS NOT restored. He was allowed to lap by himself & the car, with those long straight pipes, was quite loud getting the crowd's attention!

Unknown

Thanks for looking and the references :-)

Oldtimers like this have a knack of getting the crowds attention

Unknown

Apologies for belated thanks to everyone who contributed to last Thusday's Super Six Special blog :-

http://www.psychoontyres.co.uk/hudson-super-six/

I am really geeting the Hudson bug since I first started dropping in here, next Monday I'll be featuring a restored '34 Terraplane Pickup.

Thanks again for your support.

Cheers

PS the links should work now :whistle:

HughMackintosh

Better late than never - I thought you might like to see a few pics of the finished car mentioned in the thread above

The car is as an exact a replica of the original 4 Hudson works cars as possible - bearing in mind that only one car survives in the Samsung Transportation Museum of S Korea!

We started with a 1917 "barn find", which was beyond economic repair and made the car by doing exactly what the works did.   i.e......

> shortened the frame by 20"

> the engine was not moved back as stated above, so the engine is in the "usual place"

> fitted twin Hudson carbs

> made an exact replica of the body from period pictures and current pics of the car in Korea

> fitted the 6 branch racing exhaust

> drilled the front axle and chassis

In addition we have.......

> converted the engine to a pressure fed crank with a modern oil filter + new rods and pistons

> better cam with more lift a bit more overlap

> bigger valves and stronger springs

> crankshaft damper

> single plate dry clutch + concealed modern starter

> close ratio gears(31mph per 1000rpm in top)

> new castings included cylinder head and water pump

> block was sleeved back to standard 4,738cc (289 cu ins)

Quite a few teething issues in the first year of competition (2015), but managed to win the speed series for automobile-engined Edwardian cars here in the UK and car going pretty well now

Some pictures of the car attached

Drop me a line if you're ever in the UK and would like to have a run!!

Cheers

Hugh Mackintosh

Jon B

Very impressive, Hugh!

The closest thing (that I know of) on this side of the pond, is this 1917 Shaw Special, now in the Hostetler Hudson Museum in Indiana.  I don't recall whether that is a "re-creation" or the original thing, restored.



But of course yours is actually built for racing, while (I would imagine) the Shaw Special is now a static display.

PaulButler

Hugh,

Being UK based I have sent you a mail

PaulButler

Hugh is attending a few events this year with one on the 1st May being not too far away from me so I'm hoping to catch up with him there and get the lowdown on his car with a view to putting together an article for WTN in the future.

But mainly , if I'm being honest, to be able to go and see the car in the flesh!

RL Chilton

That's a great idea, Paul.  I'm sure there are a lot of folks who would like to see an article on Hugh and his unique car.  I know Sam is always looking for new material.