Mini starter for my Hudson

JasonNC

If anyone has template for putting a mini-starter on a Hudson using the original flywheel, I will greatly appreciate it if you could send me a copy. I'm fed up with my old starter engaging when it feels like it, which isn't very often anymore. Ol' Racer if you are out there, I tried to download the one you did in 2008, but it is too small to read the measurements. I also need to know what kind of mini-starter will work.
Thanks,
Jason

GrimGreaser

I've made one, been working on improvements this week too, give me a little bit and I'll put some stuff together. In the meantime... try this thread:

http://www.classiccar.com/forum/discussion/153844/stepdown-starter-woes/p1

I have a much better drawing, but computer issues are preventing me from getting it. I'll be out of town next week, so you'll have to forgive me.

Nine tooth pinions are readily available ( http://m.summitracing.com/parts/pwm-611 ). Mine was 10, meshed fine but complicated fabrication since my engine is still in the car.

Ol racer

FYI
Im reading this too late to retrieve the drawing. Ive made two mini starters using the small 318" Mopar starter with just hand tools available in my garage. I have one in a Hi Compression Drag Race Motor and one in a St Rod and both work fine after a few yrs now. They require sawing off the Mopar nose cone then bolting the starter to a scrap pc of 1/4" steel plate, probably 2 - 3 rs with hacksaw & file then ran a jumper wire from Bat to Solonoid terminals on the Mopar Solonoid.


A Person on this Forum sent me a detailed schematic (may have been Grim Greaser) to be more helpful to make the Adapter Plate.
However, I believe Walt Morenti in Ca. has a Mini Ford Starter Kit that will bolt in without all the work as another alternative.. waltmorenti@aol.com

JasonNC

I can wait until you get back in town. I am impressed with the pictures from the old posts. I am through with Bendix starters also. Just please don't forget me when you get back.

GrimGreaser

I believe one of the Powermaster (nothing confirmed, just a HUNCH) early hemi starters may bolt right up, only problem is they're $275. Kgap listed a high torque starter ($275), but they're down for maintenance.

[Deleted User]

Check with Walt Mordenti. He's had an alternative starter in his Hornet for a few years now, and seems very happy with it....

[Deleted User]

GrimGreaser saw your starter that you have put on your car it lookes real nice . I have already destroy two starters on my Hudson whit hydramatic i have convert the car to 12v but the starter are stock 6v i feel that i cant trust the car anymore the starter can fail averywhere . I also be glad if you can put up some moore info or drawing who you made the starter fit on the Hudson .
Regards Jan Sweden

GrimGreaser

I have drawings, but the computer files are screwed up at the moment. The easier way, if you have a 9 tooth pinion, is to remove enough material from the starter to allow the proper mesh depth. I cut enough off to get 1/8 inch between the mount surface and motor/gearbox (you can see the cutout in my pictures). But, i started with a 1/4 inch aluminum plate which isn't stiff enough without welding everything together or further gusseting. I have since made a backing plate out of some 3/8 aluminum.

So... if you have a 9 tooth pinion, the best way to go is to make a template of the pinion and mounting bolt layout. Mounting bolts are 4 1/2 inches apart on centers, pinion right in the middle between them. Be as precise and accurate as possible, drill the mounting holes at 7/16 and the pinion hole just over 1/2. Make your new plate, at least 1/2 inch if your using aluminum without welding, and use your template to layout the mounting holes in relation to the pinion shaft, with the pinion gear removed. Have the plate mounted to the starter when doing this and be very carefull to keep everything straight and square. One hole will need to be near the starter motor/gearbox so that it (starter motor/gearbox) is at about 1:30-2:00 when looking towards the front, otherwise the pitman arm is in the way.

[Deleted User]

GrimGreaser. Can you send the pictures of the starter that you have in previos thread to my e -mail so i can get little bigger pictures i can make them bigger in the last thread. My e-mail hetmarion.pettersson@telia.com drop the het.
Regards Jan Pettersson Sweden

GrimGreaser

Gladly Jan, check your email.

JasonNC

What is meant by 10 pitch when describing a pinion gear size? Does it have to do with the diameter of the head of the gear?

GrimGreaser

Update:

For those interested I have a near-final version of my adapter plate drawn up. I still have details to hash out, but it's pretty close. If I didn't need it everyday, it would be done by now. Send a private message and I can provide more detail.

Just to reiterate: this replaces a hydramatic starter.

TwinH

As I understand it "pitch" has to do with the coarseness or fineness of the teeth. A lower # pitch
is a larger(coarser) tooth with less teeth engaging the adjoining gear but with a larger contact patch. Higher pitch # would be a smaller tooth (finer) with more teeth engaging the adjoining gear but less contact patch on each tooth. A higher pitch # would be a more efficient(and quieter) but be much more sensitive to the mesh adjustment. Lower pitch # would be less efficient (and louder) but more forgiving of mesh (changes)/ adjustment.

[Deleted User]

Hudson starters are 9 tooth and 10 pitch. You must use that same drive on a high torque starter. !0 tooth will in time ruin the flywheel. I'm setting up a Hornet block, with a crankshaft, rear motor plate and an auto-matic flywheel. I'm going to see if I can come up with a complete set up a little cheaper than what I had to do to install mine. I used a Ford small block and it took a lot of machining. Do not try to use a front drive starter on a standard trans as it will knock the ring gear off the flywheel. Auto-matics are cut in the flywheel, standards are pressed on from the rear side and that is why the bendix goes into the ring gear from the rear. Walt

JasonNC

I have gone through great lengths to design and create a high torque starter for my standard transmission, and now I see where I am about to knock the ring gear off the flywheel when I try to start the engine. Great! Is it possible to replace a standard flywheel with an automatic one just for the purpose of starting the engine? I want to keep the standard transmission if possible.

Kdancy

Wonder if the ring gear can be "staked" to the flywheel by welding in a few spots and then rebalanced?

hudsonguy

Isn't the 'lead-in chamfer' of the teeth wrong as well, as it currently stands? I think even if you were to turn the ring gear over on the flywheel, this chamfer would still be in the wrong place.

TwinH

Well,my adapter flywheel(55/56 'short crank' 308 to the stepdown trans) has no shoulder to
hold the starter ring gear. It is seemingly shrunk on,then tack welded on the engine side.
Balancer,crankshaft,flywheel,and pressure plate were all balanced together on the current build,
but I never had any vibration before either. I've never had a starter issue although the 12 volt hits
it fairly hard.

JasonNC

Okay, in light of all the effort in preparation of installing the high torque starter, I like the idea of spot welding the ring gear to the flywheel. I even have a spare flywheel to experiment with. The question now becomes, how does one get a Hudson flywheel re-balanced after the spot welding is completed?

Kdancy

Any machine shop that balances crankshafts and such should be able to re-balance a flywheel.

JasonNC

Grimgreaser, I sent both of my email addresses I was wondering if you got them?

GrimGreaser

Jason, I was a little distracted last weekend but I have sent it to you. Check your email(s).

Ol racer

fyi
I made my two Mopar starter Adapters with basic hand tools and a Die Grinder They continue to work for me. However, I do have both my Hornet motors adapted to GM Turbo Automatic's using the Hydro flywheel.