Casting Hudson Steering Wheels
![[Deleted User]](https://openforum.hetclub.org/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
I've been working pretty hard the last 3 months or so on casting steering wheels for stepdowns. So far I have only been working on the 51 pacemaker style. I hope to be making Hornet wheels also not to far down the road. So far I haven't actually cast a wheel that is good enough to sell but I think I'm getting close. Here is a few pics of ones I've done so far. I've done one in the original tannish color, one in my Ivory color that I have sold a number of parts in, and one in a translucent red. I haven't put metal cores in these wheels because I want to get the techniques down better before putting the cores in them. Please let me know what you think. Thanks. Rob
0
Comments
-
Rob - It looks to me like you are making good progress. That translucent red wheel really looks good, altho not exactly a stock color. Do you think you will run into any problems once you decide to try one with the steel rim core as well as the correct center hub ? I'm proud of your progress in molding plastic parts for Hudsons. If you are not careful, you may find yourself in a growing small business! ! !
0 -
Rob, those are nice! When I get ready for my interior, I'll probably add one of those to my order of color matched knobs and bezels. Have a ballpark price thought out yet? let me know when you have a Hornet wheel to show off.0
-
Heh, heh, heh, heh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
=D>0 -
Weren't the originals bakelite or something like that ? I know many Pacemakers out there have cracks in the wheel.0
-
Have you checked with anyone (such as a plastic supplier) to see what happens when you pour your particular plastic around a metal ring? Will the differing rates of thermal expansion (in the winter and summer) cause the plastic to shrink more than the steel, and cause it to crack as the originals did? Perhaps, in order to spare yourself embarrassment, you might want to pour one of your wheels around a steel core, then test it in an oven and in a freezer, to see what happens.0
-
These guys may give you some more advice, I have purchased Studebaker steering wheels from them and they do a great job--
http://www.shrockbrothers.com/steering_wheels.html0 -
Yes, I have been researching this for quite some time now, and there is no problem with putting the metal cores inside the plastic. Like I said in my first post, the only reason I haven't put metal cores in them yet is because I want to get some other issues taken care of first. The issues I am referring to are some small bubbles about 3/32" in diameter showing up a couple of places in the wheel. I do have a plan to deal with them but I havent had a chance to try it yet as I am waiting on more resin from my supplier. Adding the core to the wheel will be an easy matter as long as I can make sure it fits within the contraints of the plastic. I may have to bend a given core a little to make it fit as I would imagine that used cores could be bent from 60 years of use and abuse. Since the mold was made with an original wheel that had a core in it it is already set up to receive the steel core. In order to cast the wheels I already did without cores I had to plug the areas where the core goes with clay. I just take the clay out and its ready to cast the wheel with the steel core included.
I'm not sure what the material was that the originals were made from but I do know that they didn't stand up very well. I have looked for years for a good wheel to put in my 51 pacemaker convertible and never have found one. I personally have 3 of them in my parts cars and they were all cracked badly. I spent about 150 hours restoring the best one of the three so I could use it as a master for my mold. I feel there should be a pretty good market for them because there are so few good originals around.
I haven't really set a price yet but I am thinking something like $750.
If you have any other questions please keep them coming. I will try my best to answer them.0 -
Rob-
Isn't there a process where you shake or vibrate your mold so that the air bubbles will work their way towards the inlet and dissipate/and or helps the resin settle completely into the mold?
The first batch look really good, by the way.0 -
Yes Russell
There are vibrating tables, in fact I have made a crude one and it does help quite a bit. Doing a large pour like a steering wheel is a challenge for sure. The first one I poured had huge bubbles everywhere and now I am down to just one or two small ones, but as you know, the last little problems can be the most difficult to solve. I'll keep posting my progress and please keep the comments and questions coming. Rob0 -
Are you using Fiberglass Resin, Epoxy Resin or Polyurethane resin? My 54 Hornet wheel is ready for a redo job. But I don't want to set the car down for a month or so waiting. When do you feel you would be ready for an exchange?0
-
-
As far as your bubble problem you will probably need to place them in a preasure chamber to cure. Makes the bubbles so small you dont see them .
And as far as the original material being unsatisfactory. A 1948 Hudson wheel is now almost 65 years old. I dont know of too many modern cars that have like new plastic after 20 years .I wonder how they will look after 65 Years ?
Roger0 -
Hudson Grandpa
I am using Polyurethane resin. I don't know for sure but I would guess that I would be ready in less than 6 months.
Roger,
I am already using a pressure chamber.
I believe 48 and 49 wheels are made of a different material that stands up quite well in comparison to the 51 pacemaker wheels. The 51 wheels are somewhat translucent and are made out of different material that just didn't stand up very well. This is my current belief about the matter. If anyone know differently please set me straight. I want to learn all I can so I'm telling people the best info I can. Thanks for all of your input. Rob0 -
Rob-
I think you and I have touched on this subject before, but you are correct, industry-wide the ivory-colored wheels don't hold up as well as the darker wheels. You can still find NOS dark wheels that look brand-spankin' new. Not so much with the ivory ones. I don't think it's the UV, as ivory wheels that have been sitting in the closet since they were made, still do not look like brand new wheels. Something about the pigment in the darker wheels that allowed them to age better. My best guess, anyway.0 -
Arent the darker ones more rubber like & therefore softer and less likely to crack?
Roger0 -
Yes, the earlier stepdown wheels I'm familiar with do seem softer and more rubber like. The non translucent later wheels don't seem that way but they sure do stand up better than the light colored translucent ones. There a lot to understand about both the steering wheels and the knobs as far as what materials they were made from.0
-
It's possible the lighter wheels were originally some other type of material than their darker counterparts. I've often wondered what they used in the first place. I know that different types of resins were being introduced around that time. Phenolic resin was one that was just coming into prominence around the step down era.0
-
Rob,
Have you tried using vacuum to suck all the air out of your mold/casting chamber to eliminate the bubbles? It worked very well for us in industry.
Bruce0 -
Good idea0
-
I will gladly purchase a Test Version for a '50 Pacemaker Deluxe in Ivory if you ever make a batch.0
-
Bruce
I would like to try that but it would take some things I don't have yet. The pressure chamber I have is pretty large and I think it would take quite a large vacuum pump to evacuate it fast enough, before the resin started setting up. My Vacuum pump is only 3 cfm. I should try vacuuming out my large pressure chamber though just to see how long it takes. Also from what I have read , When you evacuate resin that is already in the mold you need a large resevor above the mold for the resin to expand into temporarily and my pressure chamber isnt tall enough to hold a resevoir like that above the mold. Did you guys use a large resevor like I'm describing when you did the vacuuming?
Pacemaker 500
Does the pacemaker deluxe wheel look like the ones I have shown here? If so it shouldn't be too long and I'll have some ready. Maybe you can be my first customer. Rob0 -
Rob, YES, it is close enough for me. All the cracks in mine are worth any slight deviations between the '50 and '51.0
-
Rob, We were pouring liquid rubber into molds, setting them into a small contrived vacuum chamber and then pumping down. We didn't have or need a resevoir. If you are using polyester resin, you might try using a little less hardener to extend the cure time to ensure that the evacuation time is long enough to get the air pockets out of the resin. Bruce0
-
Pacemaker 500,
I have a 50 pacemaker and its steering wheel is the same as my two 51 pacemakers. I just don't know if there is a difference between the 50 pacemaker and the 50 pacemaker deluxe.
Bruce,
I am using urethane resin. I usually vacuum degas the resin before I mix part A and part B together. I have found that when I vacuum degas it, it will start bubbling ,and then quite rapidly will expand to about 5 times its starting volume and be full of large bubbles, then It will collapse down to almost original volume. I think that's what they meant in the article I read. That is you need a large reservoir to contain the resin while its going through that expansion stage of the vacuum degassing. It did say that it is a very effective way of getting rid of the most stubborn bubbles though. Rob0 -
Would heating the mix make any differance, Like injection molding machines do?
Roger0 -
Have you contacted Larry Kennedy in Indy? He made about a dozen '48-9 Commodore wheels. They cost about $850 each and he found price resistance at that level!! I spoke to him about you and he will share his knowledge. His number is in the roster. DJ0
-
I dont recall who it was but some one had them in Madison at the national for $1200.00 as I recall. They were very nice repos but not sure how well they sold ,have not seen him since .
I believe there will be those who will pay the price you ask to get a good item . But there will be a lot of wailing about highway robery also.
I know a lot of work is going into each one , most folks dont realise the process involved. And you are not making 20 at a time each one is a seperate opperation,
Roger0 -
Custom wheels go anywhere from about $600-$1200. Average price across the board is $800. I don't think Larry made those Commodore wheels, I believe he had them made. Whenever a middle man is involved, cost will go up. As far as the light-colored Commodore wheels go, what other choice do you have, if you want a wheel that is going to match the rest of your restoration? Originals didn't hold up.
As Roger pointed out, these aren't Chevy wheels made 20 at a time, they are custom made, one at a time, made by a perfectionist ( I can attest to Rob's work) for Hudsons, the greatest marque to ever come out of Detroit. I personally am in line for one of Rob's wheels, and I may very well buy two. $750 is a bargain for the quality of work. Rob makes other items as well, I'm sure if you were to go with him with a larger order, your cost per piece would probably be reduced.
My last steering wheel I had made was a '39 F*** Banjo wheel I had cut down and re-poured. Cost was $1500. Quality was adequate. With some things in this world, you get what you pay for . . . Rob's work is an example of exactly that.0 -
I was fortunate that the blue 53 Tenite wheel on my Hornet is perfect, but 10 years ago I had my 50 Caddy ivory wheel recast by JB Donaldson in Phoenix its cost was $450. My friend did a 1949 Kaiser deluxe 4 years ago for $700. The $800 sounds about right for a 49 Commdore. What about the center horn ring ornament on the 48-49 Commodores?0
-
Ron-
I believe that the center section was included on the Comm., but not positive.0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- 36.9K All Categories
- 113 Hudson 1916 - 1929
- 20 Upcoming Events
- 92 Essex Super 6
- 28.6K HUDSON
- 573 "How To" - Skills, mechanical and other wise
- 995 Street Rods
- 151 American Motors
- 178 The Flathead Forum
- 49 Manuals, etc,.
- 78 Hudson 8
- 44 FORUM - Instructions and Tips on using the forum
- 2.8K CLASSIFIEDS
- 608 Vehicles
- 2.2K Parts & Pieces
- 77 Literature & Memorabilia
- Hudson 1916 - 1929 Yahoo Groups Archived Photos