Do I need to keep the firewall support braces?
50Commodore
Member
I have had installed a Fatman Fabrications Mustang II style front end on my 50 Hudson Commodore Coupe and am wondering if it is necessary to keep the metal support braces that went from the firewall to the original frame?
Dan
Dan
0
Comments
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Remove support? SUPPORT, SUPPORT, SUPPORT. Sometimes we all ask questions we really know the answer.
Lee O'Dell0 -
Are those really supports? I will look when I get home, but I was thinking they were only attached by a thick piece of rubber, and were used to hold the inner fender wells in place.0
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Those also tie to the fender well to hold it in place so use your own judgement.
Roger0 -
I know the question I ask may be dumb, but I am not a Hudson expert by any means. Like the brand a lot and this car has a bit of family history with it. The car I have has been disassembled for quite some time and is in the paint shop being worked on there. I asked this question to get answers that will help when I put the car back together and yes I know there are probably assembly manuals that I should purchase. If the braces I speak of hold the inner fender wells in place then of course I will reinstall them.0
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Some models also mounted horns to them ,but in your case that may not be an issue . The rubber can be replaced to improve the look .
Roger0 -
I do have pictures and they are on my work computer. I will post the photos on Thursday as I am off tomorrow
The front clip was cut off and the Fatman clip was welded on in its' place. The Fatman kit fit well to the original frame rail width as told by the shop that installed it and it looks very clean. It has polished tubular A arms, coil over shocks with a power rack and pinion and disc brakes. I had a typical 9" Ford rear put in back. The hold up in getting the car done is the paint shop. Painters can be sooooooo frustrating!
Tallent R,
Thank you for the additional information on these.
DAn
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Why on earth would you go to all the trouble of removing one of the best front end assemblies ever put in a passenger car?0
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Arkiejazz,
Your reply is why I almost thought not to post this question here. I posted this in the street rod forum where I thought it best because I figured this is where owners of modified Hudsons should post and I feel that I now need to start defending why I made this choice. The choice of going this route is based solely on my decision of how I wanted the car to be. I can only imagine now what it's going to be like if I take my car, when it's completed, to a Hudson event
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I am a member of the Hudson club myself and can tell you you would be welcome at any club event. While there may be some grumbles about modified cars we have an entire sect within the club of just "Modified Hudsons".
I personaly agree the original Stepdown front end is not worth the trouble to replace. It will handle radial tires well and the only "Weak Point" is the centersteer bearing. And there are nice nylon bushings available for those now .However would agree the addition of disc brakes and a rack and pinion with tilt wheel may be warrented in some cases.
If you pulled into a Hudson meet with a modified Hudson I assure you you would not feel like an outsider .Most of the guys just like to see the cars on the road - mostly a club of drivers more than trailer queens,
Roger
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Thank you for the links. I'll get a few photos on here tomorrow and with any look I'll get some better pictures this coming Monday when I go to the shop where the car is at now. I thought I'd start being more persistent with my visits there until they figure I'll stop bugging them when my car is finally painted.
Tallent R,
I would certainly hope I would be welcome at any Hudson event. I really look forward to being able to drive my car to these events. I live in So Cal and I would really enjoy driving to a National Event wherever that may be. I know the stock components work well as they were originally designed, I guess I just can't leave well enough alone 0 -
FYI
The stock Hudson front Suspension held up real well for rough stock car racing on bumpy Fairground horse tracks back in the day, but in reality, today replacement components are hard to find and the 'center link' is an obstical to install some popular V8's.
Regarding Modified Hudson's, Ive noticed in my travels the trend now is acceptance, unlike in the past, because its another Hudson on the Hwy.
As for front supports, I altered them by welding to the frame then bolted at firewall. Also i installed 'sub frame' connectors similar to Camaro & Mustangs, since Step Down's afterall were the first Sub Frame Cars....0 -
Yes they were ,later Chrysler cars were simmilar but they bolted the front assembly on. And as far a Hudson meets The next national is in San Francisco next year.
Make your car fit your needs an your comfort level - thats what makes it all fun,
Roger0 -
Okay, here are some photos that I took quite some time ago. This was just after the body had been sandblasted. Although it does not look much different now, there has been a lot of bodywork done in the way of rust repair and smoothing of all the body panels. Most of the firewall holes will be filled and smoothed over. I'm still debating over whether to keep the hood ornament and the top mounter fender spears, bullets (whatever you call them). These pics probably won't enlarge but I will get better ones on here after this Monday.
Dan
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I notice a lot of work has been done already and looking good to me.0
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You know with all the changes to the frontyou may have to support your fender wells a different way anyhow. So it may be practical to eliminate the braces. Ive noticed while working with the stepdown bodies the front fenders lend the most support to hold the frame from vertical movement.
Roger0 -
A lot of work has been done to the car and a lot of it doesn't show. The wiper motors will be removed and replaced with a motor under the dash. That mod has already been done. This car will have a/c and the top cowl vent has been eliminated, power windows are already setup in the driver and passenger doors and the rear quarter windows will remain manual roll ups. The guages and dash will remain original in its look.
As much as I want to remove this brace mounts on the firewall, I think it best to leave them there
Dan0 -
Those braces were put in to stop the firewall from drumming. They discovered the problem before bringing out the cars in '480
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Any updates?0
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I SAY IT'S YOUR CAR YOU DO WHAT YOU WANT TO IT AND WE WILL RESPECT YOUR WORK NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO. I WILL BE GLAD TO SHAKE YOUR HAND WHEN WE GET TO MEET
HUDSONLY
PAULARGETYPE
PAUL SCHUSTER HUDSON CLUB MEMBER OF 45 YEARS0 -
Here's the latest update and while it's not that noteworthy, it will facilitate getting this car on it's way to being done. I recently went to where the car is now and rechecked the work that was done on the Fatman front end and the firewall braces will be installed when the car goes back together. To make a long story short, the body shop that has had this car has had it longer than any reasonable shop should have. I hate to admit how long it has been there. I searched around here in Ventura County and have found another body shop that does excellent work and specializes in older cars that will take this project on right away. The next time I post an update should be a week from this coming Monday and I'll call the post MOVING DAY! with pics!
PAULARGETYPE,
Thank you for that post. I'll enjoy the day when I can drive this car to these Hudson functions and finally get to meet you and all the other Hudson lover's out there. I have only been able to attend 1 Hudson event and that was the 2003 Event in Reno. Didn't have a Hudson there but I and my wife sure enjoyed being around all the cars and talking to several of the members back then.
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Nice Project - don't mind any naysayers, build it and drive it the way you want!
Sorry to hear about your body-shop issues, sadly not the first time we've heard that story around here.
I think a lot of times shops will take these as "filler" work, and/or they just get over their head and lose because they didn't give an accurate estimate..heck sometimes I've seen people just lose interest..and theyre getting paid to do the work!
Looking forward to more pics!0 -
My Essex has the early 80's Ford (Mustang) front end under it and since I have added disc brakes I find that the ride, drive and ect to be much better than what was available in 1928. It is not that often that folks change out the stepdown front end but if you are building a daily driver or if you plan to do some serious travel in your Hudson it is something that is a good thing to do. By the way, what engine are you planning to use?0
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I called the shop where the car is now and left a message letting him know I plan on getting the car out. He called me back and said "I caught him off guard" with the request and wanted to know why I wanted to get it out of his shop? Said he still wanted to finish the car for me. Really? After more years than I care to remember where he's done nothing to it and even had the time to complete a Chrysler Air Flow that was in much worse condition than mine?
Moving on.............I don't know for sure which engine I will pick yet. My choices I think are down to about 3. A 350 crate engine which are relatively inexpensive, a crate 383 small block or a complete LS1 engine/700R4 package that can be had from donor cars. I like the more simple approach to a carburetor engine but the price of the LS1 engine combination is hard to beat and those typically come complete. The drawback outside of the fuel injection setup is that many of those LS1 engines have way more miles on them than what I may be comfortable with especially since you don't know how the car was treated before it was pieced out.
I am planning to put many miles on the car when it's done which sort of prompted me to make some of these changes, plus I can't leave well enough alone
Dan0 -
If you are going to go that route try and find a rollover or wreck you can buy that is still running . You then have the upper hand in hearing it run and selling off the items not used in your project to cover cost. Watch craigs list for such things thay show up often ,
Roger0 -
Even being cast it is still lighter I'm sure than the original 262 motor car originaly carried. So should not be an issue I wouldnt think,
Roger0 -
Don't be afraid of a higher mileage LS motor. These motors are built for it. I have an LS swapped in my Vette and have another that will either go in my Studebaker or Biscayne. The Hudson is too nice to cut
up or it would go in there.
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In the midst of all of this discussion, "Rod" did answer your original question -- those braces were an afterthought. They were installed to try to help reduce the "drumming" sound that unibody cars can be famous for at higher speeds. Body on frame cars make noise (creaking, rattling) at lower speeds, but unibody cars, like Hudsons, can make a substantial background noise, called drumming at higher speeds. I can remember oldtimers talking about stuffing (pounding, actually) old rag rugs or blankets in the trunk between the wheel houses and the rear fenders to quiet some of the noise that comes from the rear. Today's sound systems pretty much eliminate the need, though.0
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I'll just add a little more about the "braces". They didn't brace or support anything, but with added weight of the inner fender attached to them, they provided a "tug" on the firewall, thus having a diminishing effect on harmonic vibration in the big soundboard that was the firewall.0
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Also the inner fender panels are bolted to the braces, so if you eliminate the braces, you won't have support for the panels.0
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Speaking of those supports.. Does anyone have a pair to spare? Out of my two junk cars.. I have none.0
This discussion has been closed.
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