262 Engine Question

48Sed

Is the 48 262 the same as the 51 262? does the wide block refer to the 262 or just the 308?
Does anyone have pictures so I can understand what narrow and wide blocks are?

Thanks

Uncle Josh

When they bored out the 262 to make a 308, the casting was too thin for comfort on the left side so they added about 1/4 in to the casting on the left side, making a 'wide block'.

48Sed

So are all the 262 narrow blocks through all the years they made them?

[Deleted User]

Remember in 56 how they talked about soft blocks in the 308s due to the reduction of the chrome content.
Father bought a new 56 308 and had trouble with the block being soft. At least that what the Hudson dealer said. Put a new engine in after 12000 miles. Traded it for a 54 Hornet at around 20000 miles due to the same trouble. Didnt know they did that in 55. Of course in those days the 55-57 werent considered real Hudsons anyway.

48Sed

Is there anything interchangeable between the 48-54 262?
Was the crank different on the engine if an auto trans was used?
Thanks

[Deleted User]

All crankshafts from 1948 to 1954 are all the same, standard or automatic, 232 262 or308. !955 and 56 the crank is 1/2 inch shorter at the end where the flywheel bolts too. If you want to us a 55 or 56 engine with the standard or Hudro using parts up to 1954, you have to change the crankshaft. The 55 and 56 blocks the same rods and main bearings inserts. Walt.

PAULARGETYPE

NOT SO WELL YOU DON'T HAVE TO CHANGE THE CRANK IN 55,56 ENGINES THERE ARE SOME ADAPTER PLATES OUT THERE ( I HAVE A FEW ) SO ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS INSTALL THE CRANKSHAFT ADAPTER AND IT WILL BOLT RIGHT UP TO A PRE 55 HUDSON FLY WHEEL STANDARD OR HYDROMATIC

PAULARGETYPE

BUT YOU GUYS DON'T WANT TO USE THOSE BASTARD 55,56 PARTS ON A REAL HUDSON DO YOU???? LOL

PAULARGETYPE

YES THEY ARE HIDDEN BUT WE ALWAYS PUT NEW MARKS BEFORE WE INSTALL THE FLYWHEEL

48Sed

What about cyl head interchange?

SuperDave

I don't agree with Walt that all cranks are the same. I think he forgot about the change in 1951 to accomodate the HydraMatic transmission. The cranks after 1950 can be used in 48-50 . The 1948-1950 cranks can be modified to fit a HydraMatic, but would have to be done in a Machine shop. I know of a HET member that tried to drill the end of the crank in the car. A disaster!
Sitting on the floor of the car with his head under the dashboard started by drilling a small pilot hole. gradually increased the drill size. After several minutes, he got a little greedy and thought he could speed up the process by using a much larger size drill and start the engine to help the drilling process. He removed the pilot bearing from the flyweel, installed the starter.... By now he is using a rather large 3/4" drill motor. After starting the engine at some point, the drill locked up and spun around. He woke up outside of the car with i believe.. a broken jaw. Lucky he is alive!

drdoug

48-50 = no hydramatic availible,1951 1st.year and all cranks were drilled for the pilot bearing regardless of what it had. No,all 262 heads are not the same. 262 NARROW block has cooling ports in different locations and some early 48-49- 262 heads did not have the 3 boss' running the lenght of it. Also,an easy way to tell if it is a narrow block head-it does not have the 262 cast into it. Replacement head also have the 262 machined off of them.

48Sed

How common was the cracked valve seat in the 262,was it after so many miles , time,overheating?
How can one tell when buying an engine that has been sitting for some time?

SuperDave

Yes Ken, it is a true story. Yes the drivers door was open.. How he missed the steering wheel is a mystery.And no it wasn't me.When he told me the story (probably 30 years ago) I was one step ahead of him, having had a drill jam on me more than once and breaking more than one drill bit. When he told me he started the engine I was laughing so hard tears were in my eyes! My only coment was "you are here in one piece so what happened?" In defence of the fellow, we was quite young at the time trying to make his Mom's 50, easier to drive. A lot older now and considerably wiser..We both had a good laugh.

hudsonguy

I've noticed that Hudson added a large circular 'cut' to the top of the block in between the bore and valves on each cylinder. I assume this was to address the valve seat cracking problem. I believe this change was made during production of the 1949 cars, sometime around the 95,000 car mark. I read something about this somewhere. My early engine #49150631 does not have the relief added (not to be confused with a 7x relief used on the 308), but my later engine #492156xxx does have this cut. I would assume all of the 'new' big six 262's from 1948-late 1949 would be more prone to valve seat cracking as a result.

[Deleted User]

I was stating that all cranks will interchange as the rods and mains are all the same size. The 232-262 cranks will go in all engines if standard transmission. I use to run a 232 crank in my hornet engine back in 52 on short tracks, stock car racing, and never was beat and was band from many tracks. That engine would sure wind and 4:10 or 4:5/9 in a Dana rear. Pistons came from a company in CA that are no longer in business. Engine was bored 100 over. Walt.

48Sed

How much do these old 262 engines sell for that are complete but not running?

[Deleted User]

Probably $200-$300 is a fair price depending on condition and accessories still on it. If it is known to run thats another story,
Roger

48Sed

Has anyone run a Clifford HK 117 (1956) cam with a lift of 372 and dur 254?
From what I have read the stock cam had a lift of 356

Uncle Josh

Walt reminded me of Stan Lupka that used to run 308s at 5 mi Point out of Binghamton, NY He was beatin everybody so they limited the track to 300 inches.

First he put the 262 crank in the 308. Got him just under 300 but they wouldn't let him run the big block. So he put the 308 crank in the 262 and bored it to 299.9.

Track champion for years. Just lost him about 5 yrs ago but I took him to breakfast about a year earlier and he was laughin yet, and 2 different people in McD recognized him and came over and talked with us.

Said he always ran high on the outside and came out of the turns wound up. I can still hear 'Sweet 16' after all these years. Yellow, so people could see him in the dust.

[Deleted User]

In those days they didn't have to tools to check engine size, so it was easy to fool the inspectors, just put a 232 or 262 head on and run. Hornets were bad news to the stock class. Walt.

48Sed

What change was made to the crank to allow use of the auto trans

Ric West IN

Re-read the response from Clutch Guy.

"Ric"

48Sed

Is he not talking about the hole foe a pilot bearing used for the man trans?

Ric West IN

No, Pilot hole was drilled in the cranks from 1951 up. This was for the automatic.
The standard shift had pilot bearing in the center of the flywheel.

"Ric"

48Sed

Ric
Thanks for the info. so much to learn about these engines.
What was the main reason the Hudson engine was so much better than the other engines from that time period?

[Deleted User]

No one reason they had such a good product. But a look at the engineering department would give you some clues. They looked at thier motor differently than other companies did. For testing in the lab they bought the cheapest poorest grade gas they could find. And they would tune and tweek thier design specks around that. Knowing if it will perform good on that it will run great on good fuel.
So realy good engineering and good materials make a differance. Hudson used a lot of the simmilar parts other comanies did but quite often in different ways. The brakes are a good example of that .The primary and secondary shoe is reverse to what most mechanics are used to seeing . Yet the way Hudson uses them if set up right (as Walt shows us) they are nearly as nice as disc's . Plus there is the mechanical backup system in case of failure.
The engine block was super hard steel . Made of the same thing others used to make thier hardened valve seats with. Thats why there are no valve seats in a Hudson motor,dont need em.
The clutch and transmission were proven items unchanged for years. The wet clutch is unbelievably smooth and driver friendly.
Then there is the body itself ,much lighter ,lower and sronger than anything on the road in the 50's. Underneath an undercarriage that handles like a modern car if you put radials on it.

48Sed

With the block made harder is it safe to say many engines that need a rebuild don't require boring just rings?

Uncle Josh

I've rebuilt 9 Hudson engines in the last few years. 3 212s a 262, 2 308s, and 3 254s and haven't had to bore one yet.

In the splashers, I've had to replace and/or re-shim mains in all of them, A bent rod hitting the camshaft in one of the 212s. Had the seats ground in most of them, an insert placed in one, and replaced some broken pistons. Replaced a camshaft in a 212 and a 254. No rod bearing problems. One broken lifter in a 254. 3 of them needed water jacket work. The 40 254 had 2 cam bearings that had turned so had some made from Aluminum as they are not available, as are the later thin-walled ones.

The valves were so stuck in the 39 254 that I had to force them out with the adjusters using different thickness wrenches for spacers. Many of the guides came out with them so replaced them all.

In the big 6s no issues with mains, or rod bearings. The 308 needed exhaust guides so replaced them all. A bad Aluminum head that blew out between 2 cylinders was replaced with an iron one.

Most of the rings are stuck so bad they have to be broken out so they all got new rings.
I suspect that the 'glue' is Aluminum Oxide, the same thing grinding wheels are made of.

It is always tempting not to go all the way to the mains, but every time I bite the bullet I find something that makes me glad I did.

[Deleted User]

Well I worked most my life around old aircraft mechanics who looked at it the same way. Bearings would be checked and if within speck re-installed.
Roger