Do I keep the straight 8 or not-I need you to help me figure this out

[Deleted User]

Ok, I need the straight eight guys and anyone with the knowledge to help me make this decision once and for all. It's been a while since I brought up this discussion. Since then I have put a stepdaughter thru college that I hadn't planned for, along with the economy woes, blah, blah. During this time I've built this car a thousand times over in my mind. But, I'm finally ready to start putting this '42 Commodore Eight Club Coupe together and I have to make the decision whether to let my motor man finish the rebuild of this 254 eight or do I go with my second choice (a 348 Chevrolet).

Here's what I going for: a resto-mod car that looks very much stock outside, custom but 'Hudsonisque' interior, some improvements to suspension, and a drivetrain that will allow me to take off on 50 to 500 mile trips running easily down the highway at 75 mph. I have already spoken to both Wilcap and Berndtsen about building me a custom transmission adapter that will allow me to run a GM 700R auto transmission behind the eight. With that transmission and properly ratio'd rear end, I should be able to keep the rpms down in the 2000-2500 range.

I've spoken on this forum and with guys in HET about the spasher oiling system and I am convinced it will be adequate enough. The babbit bearings look very good according to my engine builder but I just am curious as to how these hold up to prolonged use? My builder specializes in antique engines of all makes and he also builds some performance engines-he's good. He thinks the straight eight will hold up. He's going to use performance studs and other minor improvements but basically the engine will be stock inside. Plans are to build improved flow headers and a dual intake. Oh yeah, the wife wants air conditioning. I really want to leave the 254 in this car and I know everyone on here is going to be bias towards a Hudson engine, but level with me guys-will I make a mistake going back with the straight eight as I described? Please help me make up my mind once and for all.
Rick

StillOutThere

Its an extremely rare '42 Commodore 8 convertible and you are even considering slapping an albatross on the value of that car that may as well be the whole bloody bird of an orange Chev W-head motor into the engine bay. Look, I am a hot rodder at heart, but even 98% of rodders will tell you not to screw up a rare historical body style. And I'm telling you that now. The suspension of a Hudson leaves little or nothing to be desired. You might want to upgrade brakes for your family safety in Interstate driving. Modern Sanden compressors are not going to drag down the Hud 8. Got to 12V of course. Git 'er done.

[Deleted User]

It's not a convertible it's a coupe. Yes, still rare and I understand the significance of such cars, I have other cars that will never be modified in my lifetime. And, I don't want to revive the do and do not arguments of hotrodding old cars. I'm not cutting up the car and trust me I do not intend to change anything that cannot be changed back but I do intend to drive this car alot and I need to know what is the reliability of my plans.

lostmind

Finish the Hudson eight and install it. You will be pleasantly surprised. If not , You can always sell it and then put in your V8. It's going to be a Gm trans anyway. Many guys wouldn't own any Hudson but an Eight, There's always a market for the rebuilt engine.
You will get more attention with the modified Hudson 8 than with the Chevy , if that's what you're after.

[Deleted User]

Sounds like you really want someone to validate the build. Put in the chevy and go down the road at 60 Mph. When someone cuts you off, hammer the throttle and see ya. Everyone one will tell you what color to paint your car, how to raise your kids and tell you what will be the best for the car. The bottom line it's your car and if you think your going to sell it for some crazy amount of money because some fool has to have it, I hope you find him because I'm looking for that same guy.

PAULARGETYPE

IF I COULD CAN I INJECT ANOTHER IDEA WHY NOT INSTALL A GOOD USED 308 OR 262 HUDSON ENGINE IT WILL FIT RIGHT IN AND YOU WILL NOT HURT THE RESALE VALUE OF THE CAR (LIKE INSTALLING A 348 CHEVY ENGINE )IF AND WHEN YOU DESIDE TO SELL IT. IT WILL ALSO HOOK UP WITH A OVERDRIVE OUT OF A 48 TO 51 HUDSON AND MAKE THE CAR A NICE DEPENDABLE CAR THAT YOU CAN ENJOY FOR YEARS

StillOutThere

Sorry I misread the body style. Doesn't change my two-bit value opinion. Also agree w/ Paul if you must swap out the motor: "Hudson in a Hudson". Hot rod swaps that "could be put back" simply never happen because there is so much that gets changed, so much money invested, and it would take all that over again and more to put it back to factory. Such stock to rod to stock vehicles are probably literally one in a million.

Uncle Josh

If you plan to show it at all, go with the eight. It will run great and the public will hang around and talk about your car. It will be the only one there like it. You can't sit on your duff behind the car however, you gotta work the crowd. Run a straight thru muffler and ask them if they'd like to hear it run. Turn up your sound and hear it here.

http://www.youtube.com/v/g1bRZXfhr8Y&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3

If you repower with a non-Hudson, people will glance at it and keep on walking. If you want to burn rubber and go like the devil, get a Hornet, but don't screw up this rare coupe.

The eight is a very reliable engine. The brakes are the larger 11 inch ones and are adequate for the car. You should have at least a 4:11 or 3:78 rear end or a 4:56 with overdrive, but don't slow it down more than that. RPMs within reason don't hurt an engine but lugging does.

BTW, keep it 6V. It's fine as long as you keep it in tune. If the wife wants air conditioning, open the scoop and roll down the windows.

Just my rant, and experienced opinion.

[Deleted User]

Let me help you with your decision. Sell the car to me so you won't continue to be stressed over the decision. I'll take it with the 8

Randy Maas

ArkieJazz

If you're not in love, and I mean 100% in love with the 42, then sell it to someone who will cherish it and go buy something you're less likely to screw up

[Deleted User]

I think everyone knows where I stand on this. Congrats on getting your step daughter through college. I certainly know the feeling when all have left the nest and the pay check is mostly yours except what Uncle Sugar takes and of course the creditors. lol

[Deleted User]

Thanks guys for the great inputs. Believe me I'm with you guys on keeping it Hudson, cause if I were not I wouldn't be thinking this much about it. I am in love with this car and I am not building it to sell, I'm building it to drive-alot with my family. Even maybe a 1000 mile vacation trip once a year. I'm not interested in winning shows or burning the tires off; but, yes, I do like something a little bit different which is the reason I chose this car to begin with.

I maybe didn't word my original question correctly. Before I begin making investments in either direction, I would really like to hear from those with experiences with eights, who's driving them now or in the past, what do I need to expect from driving this engine long distances, and what is the realistic reliability of this engine with the geartrain improvements.
Heck, if the anwers come back that 254 eight isn't gonna hold up, a third choice is I may just build another car completely. I just need some facts to help me over the hump guys.
Rick

[Deleted User]

Hi---Stay with the straight 8. It is smooth & powerfull & very dependable if done right to factory spec. Should be good for 100,000 miles. You may want to talk to Hedley Bennett from Canada about the straight 8. He has driven these cars for hundreds of thousand of miles & will currently rebuild them if required. Not cheap but extremely thourough.---Cliff Minard

kamzack

Last Thanksgiving and the first week of January this year My kids and made a trip from Tecumseh, Mi. to Franklin, Tn.. About 1200 miles round trip. Car is 50 Commodore with 254, overdrive and 4:10 gear. I run at or near the speed limit. Hudsons are very reliable. I ask my kids which car they want to make our next trip in and they want to go in the Hudson. It's roomier and very comfortable and is a pleasure to drive. I got 19 and 20 mpg. I'm not the least bit hesitant to drive mine anywhere. I do keep a road box that contains spare fuel pump, distributator, water pump, flashlite and enough hand tools to to make what ever changes I may need to do. I've had it on the road almost a year and have a bit over 6k miles on it and had no repairs or side of the road experiences.
I came from a street rod background and I think it will cost more to modify and install a large block than to rebuild the 254. With all the changes that will have to be made, I say it would be more economical to stay Hudson.
And that's my rant and I wish ya well,
Kim

[Deleted User]

You should realise that Hudson made that motor up until 1952 . It was put into service in its original form in the late 20's . And with some manifold & carb improvements along the way and more cubic inchs. It eventualy evolded into something they left unchanged for years.
That type of engineering is what built thier reputation for reliability. The splash oiling is unsuitable for somethings like oval track racing . But I doubt you would ever tear it up in normal use.
As Kim says they are quite capeable on the highway. Mine also got 15-21 mpg depending . With overdrive ,however I left the regular 3 speed rear end in so the ratio was a little high.
Roger

RL Chilton

Rarerodder, keep in mind that you are on the Hudson board here and not the "Street Rod" section of the Hudson board, or on the HAMB, for that matter. So most everyone's opinion here is going to be biased towards going with the original Hudson 8. I, of course, am of the same opinion. I haven't had much experience with the Hudson 8's, but as soon as my Step-Down Hornet Convertible is completed, my next Hudson is a pre-war 8. I want one so bad, I can't stand it. And I'm gonna drive the wheels off of it, I guarantee it.

And talk about smooth! OMG, I've seen folks that can balance a nickel on a running Hudson 6. With the 8, the cylinders run in a 'W'-configuration,m where cylinders 1,4,5,8 would all be up while the rest are down, so that it runs balanced from front to rear. Typically, when the 8's are set up properly, the only way to tell that the engine is running is by seeing if the fan is going round and round. Smoothest, greatest cars to ever come out of Detroit. Period. Certainly more worthy as an automobile than to have a generic GM product installed in it.

But your question was about reliability, not smoothness, I realize. All I can say about that is, garbage in, garbage out. Or, in a nicer way, do it once, do it right. Don't cut corners, don't use inferior, or mismatched parts and don't let the guy down the street re-build it 'cause he re-builds lawnmowers for a living.

And the 100,000-mile thing? That's BS. Fords, Chevy's Lincolns, Cadillacs, you name it, from that time period, that was the accepted limit. It's how they were designed--that's all they were good for. If you take care of a freshly re-built Hudson motor, you can get HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of miles out of them, re-build it and go again. And that's no joke. Why do you think we have so many of them still on the road today?

But, remember, my opinion is biased, too.

At the very least, if you decide to go non-Hudson, save the 8, maybe re-build it and put it on a stand. That way, it could be put back someday if someone wanted to go back original. That's what TK did to his '42 Convertible. Drove it with a Chrysler V-8, but put the 8 back in before it got sold off. They're also worth more that way, if that's a factor.

Off my soapbox . . .

Geoff

RL, I can't understand your reasoning of a "W" configuration. In the H8 only two pistons are on t.d.c. at anyone time. The crank throws are 90 deg apart with two in each plane at opposing ends of the shaft.

RL Chilton

Sorry, Geoff. I may not have it quite right. 1 & 8 are at tdc, 4 & 5 are half-way or so and the others are towards the bottom. My point was that if you look at it from the side, the piston configuration makes a 'W' shape and and doesn't face the lateral and torque stress as bad as a 6 because of it. So forget all of that, it's too confusing to write. Isn't 8 doing what 1 is doing and 2 is in the same position as #7 . . . 4 & 5 in the same position, balanced, in other words.

[Deleted User]

RL, that's why I came to the Hudson Forum, to talk to Hudson guys about the facts of my first choice of a Hudson eight. My question is primarily reliability as I've been sold on the running and performace and I really want to keep this car together as much as possible. Believe me I am fighting the good Hudson fight already-some of my non Hudson buddies want me to cut the frame for a modern front clip. Don't worry guys, that's not going to happen though I am bolting on front disc brakes. But, back to engine talk.

Who are some noted builders of Hudson eight engines I could talk with? One of my biggest concerns is the babbit bearings and whether or not I should have them repoured and scraped or not? Even though the bearing material in there now looks smooth with little to no wear, does this material breakdown with time? If I need to replace then who does this now? I also would like to find a few NOS pieces like the oil pump (if that's what it was called). I too would plan on putting a few parts and tools in the trunk-just in case. Like I stated earlier, my engine builder is very knowledgeable in antique engines and rebuilds many makes and models. But, maybe there are some knowledge of things that experienced Hudson eight builders have learned that I need to pass along to my builder. Rick

RL Chilton

Two people come to mind. That's Geoff Clark (above) in NZ. The other is Doug Wildrick in Shelbyville, IN., who, incidentally is building my Hornet motor currently. Uncle Josh in NY is also extremely knowledgeable. Paul O'Malley in WV is another good Hudson engine builder, along with the Maas' in IL.

You're doing the right thing by gleaning as much knowledge as possible before making your own decision. For that I applaud you.

[Deleted User]

I dont think anyone would fault you for placing disc brakes on the front. There is a kit available that retains the backup brake system as well . If disc brakes were available for the automaotive market Hudson would have used them. Same with radial tires ,both were in use on aricraft but only scattered try's in automobiles .Crosly, Chrysler & John Deere come to mind on the brakes,but they were aircraft type and didnt seem to work out.
Roger

kamzack

If you're gonna rebuild, I'd suggest removing main bearing shells and rods and send them to a shop that specializes in repouring them. Hart's Machine in Ohio specializes in babbit bearings. They have a website. To me, this would be less expensive than sending your block any distance. I'd have your machine do what needs to be done to the crankshaft then align bore mains to correct size of main journals. Then fit rods to rod journals. A shop manual is a must when fitting everything. Even though Hudson crankshafts are very closely balanced from factory, I'd have it rebalanced along with weighing pistons and rods.
The 254 is a bit more expensive to rebuild than late model stuff, but you'll have an engine that's dependable, quiet and not have to tinker with to keep it going. Mine starts on the second or third rev and has a better sound out the back than any V8.
If you're contemplating have someone do all of it, Doug Wildrick,Wildrick Restoratrions, is at the top of the list. When he's done, it's perfect. He is an extreme perfectionist and has no tolerence for anything less.
Hope this helps,
Kim

[Deleted User]

They do have a great burbble out the back at idle ..........hard to explain,
Roger

Ol racer

Given all that Advice the decision ultimately is all yours to decide...

Uncle Josh

To furthur explain Ken's burble, an eight with a center exhaust outlet, will receive the exhaust reports at even intervals from both ends of the engine, creating more of an even hum like a Buick or Packard, while the Hudson exhaust will receive the reports at uneven times. You can hear it on my previous post.

50C8DAN

I would keep the 8 for sure, but I am biased myself as I drive one. The only other suggestion I would make is to use a 2004R instead of the 700R4. The 2004R was what was used behind the Buick Grand Nationals and has a better gear spread than the 700. This trans takes up less space and it lighter than the 700 also. This is not the turbo 200 so do not be confused with that crappy trans, and if you do decide to go that way you should rebuild with the latest improvements that give it a bit more durability, not that you will need a whole lot. There are a number of articles on the 2004R for street rods etc. so you might want to read up a bit before you jump on a 700R4.

Browniepetersen

I have both the 8 and the 6. Both are great engines, but as some have said, the 8 is smooth and quiet when it runs. I am happy with both my cars and both are reliable, so add me to the list that suggests you keep the 8 in there where it should be.

coverton

I certainly agree that my 8 runs great ! as to the tranny I agree with 50C8Dan the 2004R for size or try to find a 4L60-not the "E" as its a later improved version of the 700R4 -both are overdrive and that helps. If rebuilding be sure to get the better clutches and a "Beast" sunshell that wont break if you hit reverse too hard.I took the rebuild course at the local CC and learned something I was in a fog before !