VIN Decoding Confusion

[Deleted User]

Hi Guys,

Okay I'm confused. I have a 46 Hudson Commodore 8 (or at least, now I THINK I have a '46), with the VIN showing on the title as 284744.

Now I've been trying to decode this and I'm totally confused. According to some sources, Hudson from 35-50 used the first number of the serial number to denote the model year (ie 1942 model year would start with a 2, a 1946 model year serial number would start with a 6).

In other documents, I'm seeing this information: In reading the car number of any 1946 Hudson car, remember that the first two figures of the car number denote the chassis model, according
to the following plan:
31 - denotes Model 51 33 - denotes Model 53
32 - denotes Model 52 34 - denotes Model 54
38 - denotes Model 58


Okay so I don't have ANY of these numbers or this type of numbering system on my VIN aka serial number. Can someone help me out on this? I'm 99% sure I have a 46 Hudson and not a '42 Hudson, but weirder things have happened.

Thanks,

[Deleted User]

I also found this information: 1946 models used the number "3" to denote the year in the vin. The numeral "5" was the first number in a two-digit model designation and so the second number of the model designation was used in the serial number. FOr example, a 1946 Super SIx was labeled 31-4456, with "3" the identifying year, "1" being short for Model "51" and 4456 being the actual serial number.

Again, the number on my title has none of this type of setup

commodorecollector

Before you go any further have you checked the VIN badge on your car? It is located on the passenger side (left side) door frame on the A-pilar either above or below the top door hinge.
Compare that number to your title and lets go from there. There is a chance the car could be registered under a different VIN on its title.

[Deleted User]

Yeah the VIN badge is gone that's why I was going off the # on the title

commodorecollector

Does the car have its original engine?
The VIN number is stamped in front of the first cylinder exhaust port.

[Deleted User]

Ahhh I will check that tomorrow. Hadn't heard that before!

commodorecollector

Here is a link to the thread I had asked about engine back in december.
http://www.classiccar.com/forum/discussion/161992/original-49-engine-or-not#Item_11

[Deleted User]

If that is the correct number my book shows model "28" as 1942 Hudson Business car. Maybe someone bought a car without title and conveniently lost the ID plate. And used an older title to get it registered ?
Roger

hudsontech

Quick lesson on serial numbers. Hudson started using a two digit model number followed by the actual serial (VIN) number in 1935 with the "5" series - 51, 52, 53, etc. However, they also retained the letter designation, as in 51 - Model G, etc. 1936 models started with 6 followed by a model number - 61, 62, 63 etc.
1937 models started with 7, 1938 with 8 and so on. 1940 models were numbered a bit differently, our of sequence using "4" - 40, 41, 43, etc, which makes sense, sort of - other wise they would have had to use "0'.
1941 model numbers started with "1" and 1942 with "2".
1946 carried two designations - "5" to start the series numbers, ie 51, 52, 53, 54 and 58. However, the serial numbers began with "3" - 31, 32, 33, 34, 38. My theory is they just continued using the year designation - thus the 1946 numbers would have been 1943 ( "3") had production continued.
In 1947 they went off the tracks using "17" followed by a model number (1, 2, 3, 4 and 8 - thus 171, 172, 173, 174 and 178). Why, who knows. Of course they continued the 3 digit numbers from 1948 (480) thru 1950 (500). From 1951 thru 1954 they went to an numeric/alpha system - 4A, 5A, 6A and so forth substituting the letters A (1951), B (1952), C (1953) and D (1954.)

An there you have a quick history of Hudson serial numbers.

Additionally - Roger is correct. Since 1946 serial numbers begin at 101 and run thru 95101 your number (28-4744) is actually a 1942 model 28 (Big Boy Six)

Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN

[Deleted User]

I'm thinking Tallent R is onto something there. I'll be out at my shop tonight and give a more through look over at the numbers on the car. I do know that I have the big 8 engine, and everything on the Hudson says "commodore eight" on it. I know its tough vistally to tell the difference between the '42 and '46 models. I wish it WAS the business coupe! hahaha

[Deleted User]

I am borrowing the thread for a similar question. I know there is no decoder for the 39 models, at least that i know about. But is there any information to get out of them?
I know that my car was sold new here in sweden, and i think that it is assembled at the hudson factory "Autoropa" in malmö (that now is a ferrari store) and i am looking for some proof of this. I think that the ferrari store still has all the documentation and orders from when it was a Hudson factory in some storage, at least they had when i talked to them about a year ago. So if i cant find any proof on the vin or any other proof, i will go down there and search for the original order for my car (i will do that anyway, but it would be easier if i knew that the papers should be there)
The vin number is #9221572

Jon B

Good luck in finding this information, Krille. I do know that there was a Swedish company which received Hudsons in "kd" (knocked-down) form, in crates, and which then assembled them for sale in Sweden. But I don't know much more. I assume you are in the Svenska Hudsonklubben. I would have assumed that they would have collected all the information on the cars made in Sweden, and their production numbers.

hudsontech

Krille - the only information you can get out of a 1939 VIN (or any number before 1946) is as follows: 9x-xxxxx where "9" is the year, followed my the model number:
90 - Hudson 112, 91 - Pacemaker 6, 92 - Hudson 6, 93 - Country Club 6, 95 - Country Club 8, 97 - Custom Country Club 8 and 98 - Business cars. The remaining digits are the actual serial (VIN) number.
We do know that 89,521 units were shipped from the factory, along with 640 commercial units - but we don't know how many of the shipped units went overseas I haven't found that info in all my years of digging for any year, except 55 thru 57 - for those years we do have export figures thanks to Charlie Nau.

Hudsonly
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN

hudsontech

There are several 1942 pictures in the Gallery on the HET Web site - filed in the 1940-1947 Hudson file.

Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN

[Deleted User]

HI All,

I definitely have a '46 I know this because of the front of the car (the grille), that wasn't really my question. My question was more to the point of VIN decoding, as the VIN on my title doesn't match 1946 VIN numbers. There is no VIN tag on the car anymore (it was repainted once and I have a feeling the tag was popped off for whatever reason). I do have the straight 8 engine and "Hudson Commodore Eight" badging so I'm very sure it's a '46. I guess my concern is why does it have a VIN# from a '42 car, and is that car registered to someone else. As long as the NJDVM doesn't care, I guess I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

Ric West IN

Do you have any pics of the dash interior? I've seen several with front "clips" switched.
42's with 46-47 fronts and 46-47's with 42 fronts. Does the stamped number on the top front of the engine between the exhaust ports match the listed vin? I don't see the holes for mounting trim that I would expect and the slim door handles are like 42's .Just some
questions that might explain the "42" vin.

"Ric" Pinder

[Deleted User]

Hmmm interesting points Ric. Ill take a look at the number on the front of the engine later today when I get back out to the shop. As for interior shots, here's what I have:

[Deleted User]

another shot

[Deleted User]

When I compare options lists for '46 models and '42 models, mine has all options that are listed for '46 (though admittedly the options list didn't vary too much).

Ric West IN

Thats a 1946 dash, Check on the passenger side frame rail in the area of the horn mounting and back top edge as looking down with hood open. Ser.# should be stamped
in that neighborhood.

"Ric"

Ric West IN

Front seat looks like color,pattern and material used by the 46-47 pick-up.

[Deleted User]

Well I see where the vin tag WAS, but it's gone. No stampings in any if the locations Ric suggested to look. The only stampings or id of any kind I've found so far are on the to of the engine block, which read 159579 and a tag that says G315. Also lower down the block in the drivers side theres a little tag 166 and below that 165611 (or 17)

Ric West IN

165611 is the casting number from the foundry, Campbell,Wayant &Cannon. G315 is the casting date, July 31, 1945.

"Ric"

[Deleted User]

Cool guess that means I do have a 46 thigh what the vin actually is I may never know!

Lee ODell

Carsofchaos
If you feel like climbing under the car there should be a vin # on the right rear axle toob just left of the spring U bolt. The number was difficult to see because it was covered with dirt and under the steel brake line. Mine is approx 45 degrees down from the top on the back side of the toob.

I could not fine a stamped number on both my 47's frames either.
Lee O'Dell

Lee ODell

You think you have confusion. I recently acquired my third 47 Hudson PU through lean sale. The non op paperwork and the lean sale paperwork interestingly both show the incorrect vin # belonging to a 1949 Commador 6. The PU still has the original vin tag attached. I went to DMV office to get paperwork corrected. I also took with me Alex Burr's Information Handbook to show the difference between 47 PU & 49 car vin numbers and was told by the supervisor, they can't make the correction. I have to go back to the lean sale company to get it corrected. Catch 22! I'm waiting on correction results from the lean sale company.
Lee O'Dell

hudsontech

Lee, another way to circumvent the beauacracy is to find a member in a state that did't require titles until recent years but will issue a title to a non-title vehicle for a fee, like Maine did and maybe still does. You "sell" your truck to a club member in that state, they take the paper work to the DMV and request a title because they are "selling" the vehicle to a title state. Once the new title is in hand go to your DMV and register the truck and obtain a new title for the state you are in with the correct serial number. I did a couple of these when I lived in Maine - I think at the time the cost was $50.
Of course you have to have a lot of faith and trust in the club member you are dealing with.
Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN

[Deleted User]

The club store sells blank I'D plates just put your titles number on there and be done with it

[Deleted User]

HI Guys,

Definitely will be tracking down those VIN numbers at the locations described. Since I live in NJ which has the toughest DMV rules in the country, I wouldn't even try to change the # on the title.
Alex is right about the out of state service stuff, I know Maine does it but the fee is more like $900 now (though they will refund you the money if they can't get the title work done). There's also a guy in TN who does it for $350 but no guarantee.
Tim, I'll post up some more pictures when I get out to the shop later today. From what I could tell, my Hudson has every option that was offered for the '46 model year, even the leather interior (though it's out of the car right now) and Drive Master.
I'll post up some good engine compartment picts later. BTW is there a way to visually tell the difference between a '42 and a '46 straight 8 engine (they look pretty much the same to me....though mine has power dome and the oil bath air cleaner).

hudsontech

Well, carsofchaos, it has been a few years since I did those title arrangements for a couple HudNtsz - but $900??????????/ Good grief - I didn't charge a nickle for doing it. Which might explain why I'm broke most of the time. Oh, well. Why screw somebody over and charge an arm and a leg.

Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN

Ric West IN

Thought you said your casting date was G 315 . This translates to July 31, 1945.

about right for early 46 production, by the way, 165611 is the casting number on the 46-47 blocks.
"Ric"