Shrinking Hammer question

commodorecollector

Hi all,
I am wondering are shrinking hammers still used on restorations? I have heard from a teacher at Wyotech that they are because they damage the metal due to how thin it is. Are they even worth it? or would I be better of to switch it for another body hammer.

Thanks,
Chris

Kdancy

http://www.metalshapers.org/tips/covell/

commodorecollector

I figured that Ken, hence why I am asking. So I would be able to use it on a pre-world war II car, like terraplanes, essex? I am still a bit hesitant using one of them because I want to get be able to metal finish my cars as much as possible so I can reduce the amount of filler or metal glaze I will need to use.
Thanks Ken and Kerry for the input!
Now I just need Roger and Bent Metal to chime in

[Deleted User]

If you have to use a shrinking tool you may want to consider a shrinking dolly. Shrinking hammers usually do more damage than good. My 2 cents from experience.

[Deleted User]

I'm a "Hammer mechanic" so my opinion wont count
Roger :-t

[Deleted User]

Oh what the heck I give you one anyway . Modern thinner metal requires more of a cut and re-weld to make your contours .A French wheel type device is also handy to roll in patterns you want. Grinding ,some Hammering with a backup and putty are needed to finish.
As stated above most newer metal is to thin to stretch or beat to shape,
Roger

bent metal

Ok, I know I'm not always right. But I do try and talk with people who I consider experts, or atleast knowledgeable on this kind of stuff. Sheet metal I mean. The last time I asked some one about a shrinking dolly or hammer was several years ago. He was also not the first person I asked who seemed to restrain himself from laughing in my face. I think among the pros a shrinking hammer or dolly is considered a "gimmic". Not really a usefull tool. As a matter of fact, the last time I attended a seminar for metal shaping the subject came up, "what is the worst tool out there?". I suggested the "hammer ring", and several other people suggested the shrinking dolly or hammer.
However, I don't own either a shrinking hammer or dolly. So I might be wrong on this subject. I think it's interesting that Kenneth has had some success with them. Ken knows what he is doing, so I respect what he has to say, for sure. I also know of another guy, who is also better than me at this stuff, who says he likes the shrinking hammer/dolly. But he says you can only use them for a hit or two in one area. After that, they stretch, due to compaction of the metal in that area. The hammers and dollys that have the waffle pattern alone don't make sence to me. I don't see how they would work. How would the metal know if it should gather inward, or spread outward? Now, there is one of the hammers that spins and contracts with each hammer blow. That makes some kind of sence to me. But, as stated above, you end up with a lot of marking on the metal.
So,...my two cents is. I don't use any of them. I try not to stretch the metal in the first place. Sometimes that is unavoidable, or the metal is already stretched when you get it. So I heat shrink with a torch. Or I shrink with a disk. The Scott Knight blade, not the smooth ones. Although I'm not against the smooth blades, I just have never used one. The whole idea of shrinking is to heat the metal and when it cools it shrinks a little bit. So the smooth disk/blade is going to have to work slower, right?

I do use the serated shrinking disk often.

Want to see a top I filled, and chopped, then shrink disked where needed? Too bad, I'm going to show you anyway. Don't look Hudson purists, it's a '32 three window Ford.

[Deleted User]

They'll get over it

Lee ODell

Great job on the 32 three window Bent Metal.

commodorecollector

Thanks Hudzilla for the advice.
My bad Roger, I thought you were a body tech.
Thanks Bent for the information!
I'm getting a general consensus they are not worth using due to how they can and will mess up the metal you are trying to finish. Same thing a lot of instructors were saying at Wyotech. I just thought I would ask. Anyways I am going to remove that shrinking hammer from my tool order since I doubt I'll ever be using it.

Browniepetersen

Back in the 60's I was at a local college in a "Automotive Engineering Design" program. The instructor was a cool and very good metal man. Never saw another like him. He had a shop full of tools he had made to play with metal. One day in class he told us he was going to show us several tools that we would never use. One was the shrinking hammer. He would heat up the metal to a nice cherry red using circular motions to about the size of a softball and then use the hammer, almost, to push the ripple of metal the direction he wanted it to shrink. With the pushing action there were some small pings with the hammer. The hammer was old, smooth and well used. As he quenched his spot he added--never use this on a newer car because they have no metal in them.... He also told us that you can tell if they used lead on a true lead sled because the lead would crack. No cracks, no lead sled... Man could he ever paddle lead.... By the way Bent.. Nice work on that Ford. I love to see a Master of Metal work.

[Deleted User]

You have to listen to what I mean not what I say

bent metal

Thanks for the nice words.
Wish I could of seen that demo Brownie. Right or wrong, I never heat an area as big as a softball. If I had an area that big I would make several spots probably no bigger than a quarter, until the area was shrunk down.

By French Wheel, I think you meant English Wheel. That's how I do most shaping. Funny, it seems that "English Wheel" is an American term. When I've talked to guys in England they seem to refer to the machine as a "Wheeling Machine", although they know what I mean when I say English Wheel. Kinda' funny, I think.

TwinH

I think the 'French' part comes into play as soon as you try to fit your finger between the wheels...

Browniepetersen

Next we should talk about pick and file. This same guy helped me paint one of my 30's coupes (not a Hudson). After I finished spraying the body--on the car--he used a 4 inch brush and applied a coat of Necelous (spelled something like that) black laquer to the fenders in the time it took me to clean up my gun. The next day you could not tell what was sprayed and what was applied with a brush. He said that was the way it was done in the old days..... I conned him into showing me how to do a paint job with 21 coats of candy apple red laquer. It took three days and all he had to say at the end was that if it had not cracked in four months he would buy me a steak dinner. I paid off in less than sixty days. It took forever to sand out that car. Hard way to learn a lesson.

RL Chilton

Hello, Chris! I'm gonna put in my .02-cents worth here, fwiw.

First off, anything that bentmetal has to say about metalworking/bodywork is probably right--it's hard to argue with success.

Secondly, if you haven't figured it out from the above posts, bodywork, like any great (almost lost) art-form is highly subjective. Ask 10 body men about a given technique, and you are likely to get similar, but 6 or 7 different answers. Same goes not only for paint prep work, but painting, as well.

That said, the shrinking hammer and the shrinking dolly is a fairly new tool in the grand scheme of things, and like any new idea, I'm sure it has it's place provided it is used in the proper manner and with the proper application. Same goes for a shrinking disc. I've seen the uninitiated do some terrible butcher work with a disc, and in a hurry.

Best advice, is to try out all the varying types of techniques and tools on scrap before you take to your pride and joy. Get good with the techniques you like, are comfortable doing and produce great results and stick with perfecting those techniques.

Am I a professional body man? No. Do I use a shrinking hammer? No. In all fairness, I was taught long ago (and continue to work with) by the old guard. I was taught to hammer finish and then utilize a torch (mentioned above by bent) for shrinking and finishing with lead, which I still do to this day. Like I said, I'm sure it has it's uses, when utilized properly.

Lastly, being a pool player, I always found it ironic, that, like the "English" wheel, when imparting sidespin on the cue ball in a game of pool, it is referred to as "English". Conversely, when the English impart sidespin on the cue ball in a game of Snooker, it is referred to as "Side". Of course, the english would never refer to somethig as an "American So-and-So". LOL!

commodorecollector

I thought these shrinking hammers have been around since the good 'ole days. Guess not. Thanks Ruessell for the insight but I am probably going to stay away from these hammers since I want to get better at metal finishing the exterior than having to cover everything in filler.