Singh grooves

Chris Smith

Anyone here know about Somender Singh grooves? Youtube has a few videos and Somender has a web page. I know a Hudson builder that added these to his high compresson 308 and it fixed his pinging problem. The inventor claims a huge gain in mileage and power increases also. Looks so easy I'm tempted to do it myself with a thin blade on a cut off wheel and a hand file. I took a picture of what looks like a hudson head from a youtube video and have posted it below.

Kdancy

Rudy Bennett had some success with doing this.

Chris Smith

I'm curious how deep and wide to cut the grooves. The picture makes it easy for the location and length but thats about all.

bob ward

Double post

bob ward

The grooves have been mentioned here in the past. I have no experience with them, but on the surface they look like a plausible idea and I think there is a plus in that even if they do nothing there is no downside apart from a very slight compression loss. As long as you don't cut them leaving sharp bits that will get red hot and cause pre-ignition of course.

It would be interesting to know if any of the sidevalve engine makers over the years ever built those grooves into their engines.

Seat of the pants engine improvements testing is notoriously unreliable, the only way you can know for sure if you have made a difference is to do before and after dynamometer tests.

Can't help with dimensions though.

Ol racer

FYI
I use the grooves on my Hornet Mtr's Iron & Alum Heads and believe in the Theory. They should be done in a Mill though. Ive seen over the Yrs a couple Hudson racers used dual Ignitions to try preventing blown head gaskets using high compression ...A lot of Drag Cars today use grooves and I dont find any down side....Just my opinion....

Chris Smith

Ol racer, lt looks like you have angled the grooves slightly towards the exhaust valves. True? How deep and wide?

RL Chilton

Ol Racer-
What kind of compression do you run? The research I've done in the past made me think that if you weren't running a competition compression, the benefit would be naught. Your thoughts on that aspect?

Lee ODell

Shucks, I liked the concept when I read about it years ago. I changed head a couple months ago and had forgotten about Somender Singh grooves. I would like to have tried it.

The depth and tapered width was mentioned on one of the large number of articles I read about the subject back then on the internet. But I don't recall how deep the cut was. The cut started shallow near the gasket and progressively cut deeper and wider toward the combustion chamber. Some were 2 grooves, some 3 grooves there were examples shown different angles into combustion chamber and different depths and width.

Something to consider when cutting the depth is how much has already been milled from the head before cutting. I don't recall seeing this being mentioned in any of the articles I read. It could get a little to thin between head surface and water jacket if the head is milled alot and the water jacket derusted.

Maybe nest time.

Lee O'Dell

RL Chilton

Yes, towards the spark plug is correct. From the Singh website:

"The Groove has beneficial effects on the compression stroke as well as the power stroke. On the compression stroke, the Groove channels one last bit of air/fuel mixture towards the spark plug, maintaining swirl until the spark provides ignition. On the power stroke, the Groove provides a channel for hot gasses to jet towards the cylinder wall and rapidly ignite mixture in the squish area. It also appears that the Groove can destroy standing vortices in the squish areas as well. "

I am still looking for anyone that has done this to a Hudson engine and would like to get their results. According to Singh, the most beneficial results come from side-valve engines. I assume because their is a longer path on the head from the plug to the valves, thus creating more efficiency the the swirl and the burn pattern.

Also, does anyone have an argument for the cons of the theory? Have not seen any as yet . . .

[Deleted User]

In a standard compression Hudson engine driven like we do as a cruiser the benefits are negligible. I have done all kinds of things(some stupid) to flat heads to get them to go faster but that was in engines I dropped into cars I knew I might blow up when I got too bombastic with my lead foot. For standard Hudson owner this is fringe. I am sure those who have done it would say its the bomb. But you dyno this mod on standard say 7.5 to 1 engine and you will be looking all day long for the spike in the curve. In my Dad's shop back in the day we did so much hand porting and polishing and bigger valve swaps, welding up crazy intakes, headers, stroking cranks, cam grinding ah those were the days before hotrod shows were on TV we were all trying to go just a little bit faster and at the end of the day we were doing it on the cheap blowing sh*t up and having fun. Its all too expensive nowadays. Steps down off soap box.

RL Chilton

Thanks 51hornetA. Your information duly noted!

TwinH

I think its all hooey,just my opinion.

Geoff

I'm not interested in extra performance, just some way to stop my Jet from detonating when it's working hard and hot. I don't have a spare head to experiment with unfortunately, and am unwilling to chance weakening the head on my engine, but I would value hearing from anyone who has had any success with these grooves eliminating this problem. Waiting with bated breath!

Ol racer

FYI
The groove begins shallow then deepens across head approaching the chamber. Dont recall depth or width and heads are on motors. Grooves are only benificial for high (compression) performance Motors to help prevent detonation and aid combustion. Stock Motors, grooving may only be negilible.....Only my opinion...

RL Chilton

Thanks, Ol racer!

super651

ken U-Tex And all others on the Singh-Grooves. I will try to help out a little later in the week as we have some Sickness here and my time is needed.
But I will help on what I did and the success I am having. Hudsonly Rudy