Cost Estimate to make more hi-speed rear axle gears for '30s Hudsons and Terraplanes

ivanz62

To everyone that has expressed interest in 3.5:1 ratio rear end gears for their 1933 to 1938 cars: The very nice gears that were made in England for Pat McDonald have all been sold and the only way to get a set is to buy them from someone who bought them and did not use them. McDonald called me and said he has asked for a quote to make more and has received the terms. A run of 10 sets would be required and the cost per set would be $875 FOB the manufacturer in England. Shipping and duty to the US an estimated $150 to the price for a total of $1025 with no mark-up anywhere. In addition, a deposit of 50% of the cost would be required--that is $4375. McDonald, who put up the deposit money last time, is not interested in doing this again. He is investing in an overdrive project to fit in the drive line of '30s Hudson and Terraplanes at this time (I believe he expects the overdrive to cost around $3000).
Unless someone here wants to step up and bankroll the project, we would have to collect 50% deposits and when we have 10, we could move forward.
So this is the first move. Who is interested? Get your interest known and pass the word to your Hudson friends.
Ivan

ArkieJazz

interested

Richard E.

Thank you for checking this out, Ivan. I get a lot of questions about this set up because I have it installed in my '36T. It makes a huge difference out on the highway. I can cruise at 65 mph with no problemo. I would be interested in a 2nd set if the project goes forward and I will get the word out to folks who express interest.

Unknown

I would be a customer!

Jon B

Ivan, just as an interested party, I'm curious: would that shipping be $150 per gearset? Seems like, if ten or fifteen guys pooled their resources and each of them put up some "front money", they could pay for the deposit. Then, after the gears are made, they could pool resources again on shipping to the US, maybe to a central point in the U.S. from which they could then be re-shipped to the individuals at a less costly rate. Surely if you shipped ten of these gearsets together to a central location from England, it couldn't cost $1500....could it?

hudsonsplasher1

I'm interested!

ivanz62

With regard to shipping, I cannot say what it would cost. When I shipped the gears made previously from California to others here in the US, shipping via UPS and insurance for a single gearset cost $75-85. Which does not include any wrapping, boxing, or handling charges that were just absorbed by my business. The duty cost to import is based on value and I could see that it would cost $150 to ship from the UK and pay the duty. I agree that $1500 for shipping and duty for 10 sets sounds high, but who bears the cost of breaking the big box open and re-shipping domestically? I am open to suggestions on how to do it for less.

We are still a long way from 10 Hudsonites who are willing to pay the unfortunately high cost at this time. I think I see 5 or 6 who are interested enough to continue the conversation--and I assume that means put up the 50%.

Rocket

Ivan I will take two sets for sure were do I send the money

dholck

N/A ...Overcome by Events (OBE)

ivanz62

Its harder than you might imagine to get spiral bevel gears cut. They are cut on a special single purpose machine--usually a Gleason. And to have them be as quiet and reliable as the originals, you must start with good material (expensive!), heat treat them properly, and run them together after heat treat to mate them to each other. I have set set of the English gears out for a quote from the best people I know who happen to be in Texas. Another problem is that even for the best and most experienced, the set up of the machine requires making some reject sets to zero in and get it right. This is why the minimum order of 10 sets comes up--you have to defray the cost of the set up parts that are rejected.

dholck

OBE

Richard E.

I installed a set of the gears made in England in my '36T during the restoration 7 years ago and I have had great experience with them, trouble free driving and able to drive the car at freeway speed. These were specifically made for our cars and they work well. I would prefer to stick with a proven product, lets use the company that produced these. It looks like we might have reached 10 folks who are ready to commit and put up 1/2 of the full price to get them produced. Ivan are you willing to honcho this project? Just say the word.

ivanz62

dholck,
I appreciate your thoughts and input. I have yet to find a shop with the investment in machinery, software, and highly skilled programming talent that is willing to make their technology available to those of us in the car hobby for very short run custom parts. The capital investment is not sitting there waiting for hobbyists to walk in the door. If you owned the business, you could use it to supply a pet project. But with machinery costing hundreds of thousands of dollars, there always seem to be accountants who want the equipment to pay for itself. I am afraid the dreams that modern technology like 3D printing will make it easy are just dreams. In our auto restoration shop, we use CAD/CAM machinery to do many things, but have seldom used that ability to make significant quantities of anything. What the technology does do is allow us to have increased machining capability. Making the spherical part of an automotive ball joint is one example of something almost impossible to do with a manual machine that is easy with CNC capability.
Please try to find a job shop with the ability to do the spiral bevel gears and inquire as to their interest in making a run of 10 sets and a cost estimate for the programming and manufacture.
Love to hear you found a reputable establishment. Let us know how you do with this.
Cheers,
Ivan

dholck

OBE

dholck

OBE

ivanz62

I have a new set of the English made gears--the last new set__at High Performance Gear in Manchaca, Texas for a quote. They have done good work for me in the past--made some Ferrari ring and pinion gears two years ago. We are looking at whether it is possible to drill and tap the ring gear for the six bolt pattern used until 1938 (I think that is correct) and to also drill the eight bolt pattern used in the next generation Hudsons. I have a sample of each carrier on my bench and am going to do some measuring.

Nevada Hudson

There was a place in Healdsburg California called Mitchells that made overdrive type gears for all vintage cars.

ivanz62

The overdrives which Mitchell made originally for Ford Model A go in the drive shaft behind the transmission. Because the Terraplanes and Hudsons of the '30s have an "X" member right behind the trans, the overdrive would have to go in front of the drive shaft. Pat McDonald in England is working up an overdrive set-up and that is one reason he is not interested in making new ring and pinion sets. Certainly this addtion is a good alternative if you are not concerned with the look of originality.

[Deleted User]

I would be interested in a set of gears, and I think Tom would be as well. Mark

dholck

OBE

Rocket

any news yet if we can get these

PAULARGETYPE

WHY NOT PUT A FORD 9'' UNDER YOUR CAR YOUR HUDSON WHEELS WILL FIT AND IF YOU DON'T TELL ANY ONE WHO WOULD KNOW???? IT EVEN LOOKS LIKE A HUDSON REAR END WITH IT HAVING A PUMPKIN THAT COMES OUT THE FROUNT THIS WAY YOU COULD HAVE ANY GEAR YOU WANTED AND AT A LOT LESS COST JUST SOME THOUGHTS RUNNING AROUND IN MY HEAD

ivanz62

Well, here's the quote for US made gears in 2013 dollars. Based on my English made 3.5:1 ratio gears which I sent to Texas at my expense for the quote. As you can see, for ten sets with a share of tooling costs added to the unit cost, we are talking about $1200 per gear set
plus shipping cost with nobody making mark up for putting up the cash or handling the whole deal. So its time to sign up and lets see how many hands are up wanting to do this.

Somebody want to estimate the cost of putting a Ford 9" under a Hudson? I'd like to know that number.
Ivan

PAULARGETYPE

IVAN

I ASKED MY LOCAL JUNK YARD TODAY THEY SAID I COULD HAVE THE COMPLETE REAR IT HAS 351 GEAR SET IN IT (SO I WILL NOT HAVE TO CHANGE OUT THE RING AND PINION) TOTAL OUT THE DOOR LOADED ON MY TRUCK $200 ( CASH ) IT IS OUT OF A LINCON VERSALLES THEY HAD 2 ONE WITH DISC BRAKES AND ONE WITN DRUMS I CHOSE THE DRUM ONE THE DISC BRAKE ONE WAS ANOTHER $50BOTH WERE THE RIGHT WIDTH TO FIT IN MY 39 OR MY 34

faustmb

I'm interested in a gear set.

Around here it is pretty difficult to find a good 9" rear end for less than 5-$600. The newest 9" is already 25+ years old, few yards are catering to those cars. You can buy an 8.8 for less, but a decent one is still going to be better than $300, and closer to $500 for one ready to go. Then making it bolt in, sorting out the brakes etc... Makes the gear set sound very good to me.

[Deleted User]

I am still in as I want to keep my rear axle that I have a lot of cash into rebuilding, but I want the ability to cruise 55 or so without the motor singing. Mark

Richard E.

Ivan, once again thank you for the time and effort that you have put toward this project. So the proposal is to have the gear sets made in Texas by High Performance Gear at a total cost of $1,200/set? I image that we will incur some shipping costs to get them to our individual locations? Yes, I am still in for one set.

Rocket

I am still in to Ivan.

ivanz62

Okay... To move forward with having these gear sets made, please email me and I will get a list of names and addresses for the order.  I will be asking for a $600 deposit from each of you.  I am not prepared to put up the entire 50% deposit cost to get going.  Pass the word to anyone else you think might be interested so we can include them.  Will report back with a count. Don't send any money yet!

ivanz62@comcast.net

Jon B

Ivan, did you say that these gears would fit a 1933?  (My understanding is that the gears made by Pat, went back to the 1934 model year).  If 1933, do they fit both the "large" Hudson and the Terraplane as well?  I would assume that '32 and '33 were the same, both in Hudson and Terraplane, so that would mean that they should fit back to 1932. 

Obviously, the more years they fit, the more people they'll appeal to!

Geoff

Part numbers for 32-'33 Terraplanes have different part numbers for the C & P sets, so I doubt that they would fit.  Parts book quotes  '34 -mid '38 models all the same. In mid '38 they changed the ring gear and carrier to 8 x 7/16" bolts to overcome problem of these breaking.  Earlier models had 6 x 3/8" bolts and are prone to shearing off.