Hudson Terraplane Overdrive?

[Deleted User]

Hey guys, earlier I got on this forum and asked about '37 Terrraplane grills (and got a response...thanks Hudzilla). I've pretty much got the deal wrapped up but don't have the car just yet. I was wondering if the Terraplane ever came with an overdrive transmission? If not, has anyone out there fit one in? Maybe these questions have been asked a thousand times...sorry if so.

thanks, E

Jon B

No. I used a 1940 overdrive (along with the 4.11 rear axle gears) in my '37, but they are fairly scarce. A more practical option is the '41-52 Hudson overdrive but these are designed to work with column shift levers. Although the '37 had a floor shift, Hudson did offer retro-fit column shifters in 1939 (for the 1937 and 38 models) so in a sense this could be considered "authentic Hudson". (Plus it gets the shift lever off the floor which makes it much easier to ride three in the front seat.) I think you can adapt any Handi Shift to the '37. Any 1941-52 Hudson-built overdrive transmission will work, but I don't think that the 1952-and-later Borg Warner overdrive transmissions can be wedged into the pre-war Hudsons.

Another avenue to get more speed out of your car, is to try to find a 3.5 ratio rearend gearset. These were offered as a dealer-added option by Hudson "in the day" but not many were sold and originals are almost impossible to find. However, Pat McDonald was having them reproduced, until recently, in England. The price at the time was about $600 in US dollars. I'm guessing none are still available but maybe there are a couple out there which were never installed and might be for sale.

The last option is to use a complete axle with a more favorable axle ratio, from a 1960's or 70's Brand X (MoPar or Mustang are the usual candidates). Several Hudsonites have taken this avenue. The advantage is that the old axle may eventually be swapped back into the car, for the sake of authenticity, without a great deal of work.

In none of these options would I recommend driving the car at more than 60 mph all day, though. I have driven to several meets in my '37 at 60, all day, but seldom ventured much over that. The 3x5 splasher engines just weren't designed to run terribly fast, though when they were new they racked up some impressive test results on the Bonneville Salt Flats.

[Deleted User]

Thanks, good info. I'll keep my eyes peeled for the first best option. Mopar rear sounds like the easiest. Changing engines sounds hard too. I've already been told that the 308 requires alteration of the fire wall and what not...personally, I'm not into doing that much modification. I've seen some very cool mods, but I lack the skills and finances for that. I'm satisfied with doing things in line with what you mentioned. Thanks again.

-E

Jon B

I'm one of those accursed "purists". However, I will say that some people seem to have successfully transplanted a Hudson Jet engine to their late thirties Hudsons. That engine is about the same size as the original 3x5 so it should fit in the compartment. But is a much more modern engine than the old 3x5 splasher, having been designed in the early 1950's.

LHudson

There is a thread on this board, talking about converting a 2 lever OD to a top loader using a Jeep top cap. I have tried to find the thread but no luck. The (non=functioning) search feature on this site sucks big time. If I remember correctly the thread originated on the Studebaker board. You might have more luck going over there and search. Hope this helps. Hud

[Deleted User]

That's interesting...I was wondering if something like that was possible. I once used a R-11 Packard transmission from the 50's in a 1938 Packard. I followed some tips from another Packard enthusiast and modified my '38's top loader to fit into the lever grooves on the R-11. The top loader bolt pattern was exactly the same as the side lever's...very easy modification. Then on to shortening the drive shaft, etc... Like the Terraplane, the early Packards also had a X-frame. I had to drill some holes in the frame to allow room for the solenoid and speedo (using a hole-saw). I saved the pieces in case I ever wanted to make it original again. Probably never will.

I was guessing that someone had at some point modified the Hudson 3 spd o/d to use some sort of top loader shift mechanism.

I'll look around some more. So far no luck.

thanks, E

Jon B

The 2-lever (Borg Warner-built) 3-speed transmission, and the overdrive version, can indeed receive the Jeep (or Studebaker truck) top cap. The 3-speed can be transplanted into a 1930's Hudson (as far back as '35 and maybe earlier). But the overdrive version cannot, because it is too long. As Erik noted, parts of the transmission hit the X-frame and this requires cutting the frame. Most people do not want to get into doing that.

[Deleted User]

Are the borg warner 3 spds. easier to shift or quieter than the orginal '37 transmission? Other than that, I don't know why a guy would make the modification. The overdrive is what makes it worth it to me. Although I really do hate to cut things. A couple of 2 inch holes in the frame are okay to me, but more than that and I feel like it's not worth it....I just don't have the acorns to go much further than that.

By the way, which Jeep transmission should I be on the look out for?

-E

Uncle Josh

The double and single lever overdrives are the same size, 8 1/2 longer than a standard. The problem is, that the double levers bolt from the outside of the bell housing with 4 bolts, and use a different bell housing which won't fit the early splashers, whereas the single levers bolt from the inside of the bell housing with 6 bolts.

If you can find an automatic parts car with a Hudson rear end (to Mid 52) it will probably have the 3.58 rear end in it. Jack up one side, rotate the wheel 2 turns and count the driveshaft revs.

[Deleted User]

Sounds like it is not meant to be. Earlier someone mentioned fitting a Jet Liner engine in a Terraplane. That sounds interesting. Did the Jet come out with an o/d transmission? Not that I just have modify this car, but I know that the Jet had a Twin H set up and that might be a fun little mod that is also non-damaging to the car.

[Deleted User]

Never mind...I'm sure the Jet also used a column shift type lever...not a top loader. Changing things around is not for the faint of heart.

Geoff

The Jet transplant is not easy, apart from the engine mounts. Clutch throw-outs are different, and the overdrive would be far too long to go in the cross member. And jet parts are not that plentiful either, they only made them for two years.

Jon B

I would agree. Barring an overdrive transplant (the easiest of which to acquire / install would be a Hudson-built transmission from 1941-52 though it requires a column shift), or the acquisition of one of Pat McDonald's repro 3.5 rearend gearsets, transplanting an entire rear axle with a favorable axle ratio would be the neatest and cleanest way to go. In fact, an article in the WTN several years ago, explained it all: Making The Terraplane A Highway Cruiser by Bob Elton. I could send you this article if you'd like, just PM me.

[Deleted User]

Thanks for the good responses. With the various links, I was able to find all of the articles relevant to this modification. Looks like it's been well discussed many times.

-E

junkcarfann

I put a 2000 something Ford Explorer rear axle in a 36 car. It was almost a bolt-in once the spring pads were welded on. The T-plane driveshaft was the same length, and it used the same U-joint as the Hudson, after I changed the pinion flange. Even the T-fitting for the hydraulic brakes, and its bolt, were the same, in the same place, right down to the same thread!

That Ford rear end has just about every gear ratio you can want. Junkyards are full of them, unlike the 1960 Mopars that are now scarce and expensive, and likely in need rebuilding, new brakes, etc, because those cars are now old and collectible.

If you go the Ford route, find a specialized shop that only does rear end gear changes. Every large city has one, because they do all the rear axle work for all the car dealerships. They have all the info on the pinion flange, and can change the gears to the ratio you want. And the Ford has the same Bolt pattern for the wheels, so no change there.

ps...I used a Lokar (its a hot-rod company) e-brake kit to connect the Hudson e-brake mechanism to the Ford Rear.

pps...the unit I used was 1/2 inch narrower than the T-plane, which amounts to 1/4" on each side. Someday I plan to get a spacer kit (hot rod shops sell these) that is 1/4" to bring the wheels back out. But it looks ok now.

[Deleted User]

Just a note here, the 36 car is much narrower than the 37 so it may not be the best choice.

[Deleted User]

I've been considering the mopar rear ever since talking with a Hudson fella from the Club who has done other conversions. Our conversations was about putting a 308 and mopar rear into a '46 Pickup. He said the plymouth satellite was his favorite choice. Anyways, I started looking around and the ones I found were expensive. However, I do feel that you gotta pay to play. $1000 for a rear-end and a couple of week ends of work are probably worth it in the long run.

thanks, E

junkcarfann

The rear end is used in numerous cars and light trucks, and most likely has different widths.

Jon B

If someone who has done a successful conversion to their 30's Hudson (no matter what the year) could write down all this info (exact make, year and model of the donor axle, part numbers on the brake conversion parts, etc.) , and send this information to Sam Jackson in the form of a tech article, this would be a great service to Hudson owners.

It's been a number of years since Bob Elton's article, and the rear axles he recommended for transplantation were for automobiles which are now, themselves, considered antiques. Thus these axles aren't cheap anymore. Plus, since that time newer, better "fits" have come out of Detroit and -- being from newer cars -- these axles can be bought reasonably. So, this new information needs to be diffused to Club members.

Please consider taking the time to write down your own experience with a rear axle transplant, along with exact specifications, and to send all of this to our newsletter editor!

Rocket

If any one is willing to spend a $1000.00 plus to get an over drive unit on there car you may want to talk to loyd young in ohio you can find his number in hennings. The ones that he builds bolt to the back of your transmission or if you do not have the room he will build you one that bolts to your rearend.

Geoff

Just to clarify, the 1936 rear end was the same width as later models. up to 1935 they were about 4 inches narrower.

[Deleted User]

Alright...I like this discussion...good info being swapped around. With all the good advice what's looking like the best option for me is to use a modern rear end. The transmission swap looks very difficult with hard to find parts....unless a fella goes with the aforementioned overdrive to his rear option. The Ford rear end will have modern and easy to find parts and sounds to be very straight forward.

Now how about disc brakes? Is that going too far? I realize that I may be stepping on some purists toes...and that is not my intention, after all, I consider myself somewhat of a purist too...but I am intrigued by the idea of small easy modifications that make these old cars a little easier to go and stop.

Maybe I'll start a new thread for that one.

-Erik

ps. Just to prove that I'm not afraid to drive 'em as they are here is a link to a slideshow of one of my many trips across the country in my favorite jalopy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es3mJAK7Hxo

I'm sure many out there have done the same or similar. I'd love to hear stories and see pictures if any one has the time (new discussion as well I suppose).

thanks, E

Geoff

If you went to disc brakes then you would also have to have power assist? One thing leads to another!

[Deleted User]

I know...bummer. Just wishin'....

When it gets down to it. I actually really enjoy driving them with the performance of the period in which they were built. You can't turn back time, but you can drive an old car around.

[Deleted User]

You do not need power assist to go with disc brakes. Go with the Wilwood setup on callipers and master cylinder. On my 51 I went with the Wilwood dual stage MC under the floorboard in the same location as stock with remote fill under the hood. I got everything from Wilwood including the balancers. Yeah power assist it nice but the pedal pressure to stop is not much different than drums in my experience.

Jon B

One fairly easy brake upgrade would be to replace the front brake drums with those of a later Hudson (which has larger drums than the '37). I have done this on my '37. It's pretty much a bolt-up solution: backer plates and drums come from the more modern car, but often the 1937 wheel cylinder can be used. It's been awhile, and it was done by the fellow who did a lot of work on my car (but who is, sadly, no longer with us). I think it was from a Step-Down (possibly a Commodore) and I believe they were 11" inside diameter drums, 2-1/2" deep. Or, one can use the 1941 to '50 Commodore, Country Club, commercial drums which (I think) are only 1-3/4" wide x 11" inside diameter. (Just don't use one from a "112" or Traveler.) Either way, you have much more stopping power. You can also (I'm told) replace the rear drums but if you go to a modern rear axle, that won't be a consideration.

All of these interchanges are from my memory. Many Hudson guys know this stuff better than I, but I just wanted to clue you in that a radical (i.e. disc brake) conversion is not the only alternative you have in order to improve your braking.