Timing light need recommendation

parkerm

Guys,

Can anyone recommend a good timing light that will include the Dwell reading and also tach reading for 6 volt system? I was looking at the Actron CP7529 it seems very comprehensive, but in reading the specs it states that you must use a 12 volt battery to power the timing light when using it for 6 volt.

Please give me your experienced recommendations.

Marvin

Park_W

I'm looking too, Marv. I have a Sears timing light that works fine on the 6v car if you power the light with 12v and ground the light to chassis ground. But this doesn't work with my "engine analyzer" dwell meter. I used to have a small dwell meter that had its own batteries, so was independent of vehicle system. Would love to find one of those!

J Spencer

Timing lights will not include the dwell reading as that has to be taken off the feed wire to the distributor. There might be one with a tach but a meter that does dwell will also do RPMs. Actually my good Mac timing light with timing advance feature works off my 6 volt battery even though is says 12 volt.

Timing on a Hudson is difficult at best so what I did was get the timing marks lined up @ O degrees # 1 cylinder, then made a V shaped pointer out of sheet metal, bent and drilled it to fit on 2 bolts of the timing cover them marked and painted a white line on the Harmonic balancer. Makes it a lot easier to adjust timing looking down past the generator than at the flywheel. Most other cars were made this way. Enclosed photo, hope it works.

Jim Spencer
WNY Chapter

parkerm

Park_W & Jim,

I have been looking at various web sites to gather information. On one of the racing sites I looked at they seemed to agree that the Ferret timing light was the best. I then looked for the website of the manufacturer and I found GXT. I sent them a message asking what timing light they had that would work on a 6 volt; their answer is below. The problem is the cost; at $350.00 bucks I don't think it is the right tool for me. Their website is listed below in the answer they sent me.

Thanks to both of you for your information.

Marvin

Hi Marvin,

We have a rechargeable that is a digital tach/advance ourV085-01. If you want dwell, the V086-01 but it has to be hooked to a 6 or 12 volt battery. Our timing lights can be seen on our website gxtauto.com
If you would like to purchase one you can order it on our website or call us at 800-627-5655 ext 106.

Thanks,
Evy

lostmind

There are plenty of used timing lights on ebay. I sell 5-6 a year on the car forums.
KalEqup marked theirs as 6/12 volt , but were identical to the Mac marked 12 volt.
All the ones I've had worked on 6 volt. Perhaps not as bright , but I couldn't tell the difference.
The tach dwell meters work on either 6 or 12 volt cars if they are self powered

lostmind

Here is an old style one that used only the secondary current to power a neon style tube.
Works on any engine.

Frankvintagefullflowcom

The notion of attaching a pointer to the timing cover seems simple but the outer ring of the Hudson dampener is mounted independently of the hub through a pair of internal rubber discs so the hub isn't positively "keyed" to the outer part, it's simply "sandwiched" between the discs. Although I don't suppose the outer part ever moves in relation to the hub, that's the reason the marks don't appear there to begin with. The Jet is the exception to that rule.
Frank

Park_W

Lostmind, who has the self-powered tach/dwell meters?

RL Chilton

"The notion of attaching a pointer to the timing cover seems simple but the outer ring of the Hudson dampener is mounted independently of the hub through a pair of internal rubber discs so the hub isn't positively "keyed" to the outer part, it's simply "sandwiched" between the discs. Although I don't suppose the outer part ever moves in relation to the hub, that's the reason the marks don't appear there to begin with. The Jet is the exception to that rule.
Frank"

That's a good point, as the hubs get older and there is more flex in the rubber, even if they flexed 1-degree, it would make the mark read differently.

lostmind

Park--Here is one sold on Amazon or Sears/K-Mart has the same brand.
http://www.amazon.com/Actron-CP7605-Tachometer-Voltmeter-Analyzer/dp/B00062YUUS
I have an unused Equis Anaylizer for $18. Comes with instructions , but no guarantee, other then it will work. Send me your email in a PM if your interested and I can send photos.

Frankvintagefullflowcom

Re: Hudson timing marks. Although I would argue that the rubber doesn't get any more flexible with age, the point I was going for is that there is nothing that assures the ongoing alignment of hub and pulley on those units. If you were to establish TDC (or whatever position you wished to line up with your new pointer) by the flywheel marks and then apply a mark to the pulley each time you wished to set timing, you would be sure to get it right. This would also indicate whether or not the mark had moved since the previous timing event, assuming the previous mark was still visible.
I have checked the Hudson flywheel marks by establishing true TDC (head off, degree wheel and indicator) and found that the original marks are quite precise, but it's no mystery to us Hudson guys that there is a significant parallax issue to deal with, not to mention that it's just nearly impossible to get down there to look without using a mirror, which then blocks the light flash. We can always do the old "advance 'til it pings and back it off a couple of degrees" method.
Being a newbie at this, I see that I need to come up with some cute screen name instead of the book-long one I have.
Frank

hoggyrubber

I got this roll around allen engine analyzer a while back. it has everything all built in one. it even has the specks for Hudson engines, and most others, back to 40's.

Lee ODell

Frank
Your name sounds good for a new handle. Works for some of us.
Lee ODell

TwinH

My 308 came to me with a timing pointer and groove in the damper. I'm sure I read the reason why a while back here but in my case is has to do with the lines on the Hudson conversion flywheel that mates the short crank 55/6 engine to my single lever trans not lining up properly with the window in my motor plate. I verified the pointer with the degree wheel on my new build
and found it to be less than the width of the groove off. I will mark the flywheel at TDC to line
up with the window this time but still feel pretty good about checking the timing on the crank
pulley. I will say though that this is only a static check and there is no true way to know if it
is deflecting any while the engine is running. I don't get too hung up on timing numbers though
as mines nowhere near stock and the engine will tell me what it needs or likes.

Frankvintagefullflowcom

I didn't mean to suggest that the mark would drift during the timing adjustment process. I doubt that it would unless the rubber discs were really bad, in which case the dampener would be in-effective, not to mention that the W/P and generator are driven through that same rubber-disc sandwich. So far, I've not seen any that bad. The usual damage is from "mechanics" trying to drive the pulley off from behind with a BFH. Ouch!! I'd guess that at least half I've seen are that way.
F

Geoff

The pulley is keyed directly to the hub, so the water pump is not driven by the rubber sandwich.

Frankvintagefullflowcom

With all due respect to Mr. Clark, the hub is keyed to the crank snout but the large, outer part, with the pulley groove, is not. Note in the photos that there is nothing to "key" the hub to the outer section. It is driven through the hub/rubber-disk sandwich. If you were to assemble this unit without the rubber disks, the hub would (and does) spin freely in the center bore. If assembled correctly, the hub ID protrudes slightly beyond the face of the pulley so that the outer part isn't contacted when tightened with the center capscrew.
Frank

DocHornet

Save yourself some grief and get a battery powered timing light. That way it will work on both 12V and 6V systems. Just clip the sensor on #1 plug wire, and you're good to go. I have a couple in my toolbox, and rarely pick up my "old School" car battery powered unit.

Here's one at Amazon for under $50 amazon.com/Wilmar-W80578-Self-Powered-Timing-Light/dp/B002KS72GA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1384643910&sr=8-3&keywords=battery+powered+timing+light

Park_W

Lostmind, thanks for the tip on a source. I've ordered one of them from Amazon.

Geoff

Oops! You are right Frank, my apologies. The earlier models have the pulley as part of the hub, and the dampener coupled to this through bolts or screws through the discs.

Richie

DocHornet, great idea, I just bought one on ebay for $32.99 plus 12.25 shipping. I didn't know that made such a thing. Richie

Frankvintagefullflowcom

Geoff,
It occurred to me that there may have been some earlier versions that were of the design you described but I was going on the assumption that these guys were talking about the late (thirties-up) engines with which I am most familiar.
We still have to spar over that Jet head-bolt torque spec we discussed in San Mateo. I'm not done with you yet!
Frank

Geoff

Frank, up to 1952 the cylinder head torque was specified as 60-65, for all models and then in 1953 they upgrade this to 75-80. I believe this was to overcome the problem that had developed with the 308 engines blowing head gaskets. However, they included this higher figure in all workshop manuals from then on including the Jet. My personal opinion is that this figure is far too high for the 202 motor, and I only go to 65 lbs, and have not had any problems with gaskets. My "two-bob's worth".
Geoff

Frankvintagefullflowcom

Hmmmmm. "Two-bobs worth". I'm guessing that's a NZ expression equal to our "two bits worth", adjusting for the current exchange rate, of course.
I'll agree that the 75-80 figure is too high for the Jet, but I'd call it as too high for any of them using the same Gr 8, 7/16-14 capscrew, a notion that agrees generally with common specs for that fastener. Frankly, I don't see that being in a 202 is any different than any of the others. Procedural errors were probably the #1 cause of issues in engines that got "worked on".
I'll say we agree.
Frank

Kdancy

I remember growing up and helping my dad work on his used cars. He seldom purchased a new car but having to drive over a hundred miles a day for years would wear one out then get another one, so we were always tinkering and "shade tree" mechanic'ing on them. In 69 bought he bought a 56 Hornet that he drove for about 5 years. About once a year we would have to change the head gasket. In all those years we never used a torque wrench, it's a wonder his cars stayed together as well as they did! Nowadays I use a torque wrench on everything I work on and have it re-calibrated every two years. No telling how many torque wrenches are being used that are way out of calibration and are about as good as not using one at all.
I used an extra 12v car battery to run the 12v timing light on 6v systems.
I like the battery powered timing light idea.

[Deleted User]

I have a working vintage Sun 6 volt timing light that I use on my Super Wasp. However, I like the idea suggested by DocHudson of the self powered timing light as it has just one wire (induction), no other wires or cables to fuss with. That's going on my X-mas list!......and I thought I didn't need anymore tools for working on my Hudson.

Dan

Frankvintagefullflowcom

I don't remember growing up......

Park_W

I use my 12v light on the 6v car by using jumper wires to connect a 6v lantern battery in series with the car's battery to mpower the light. Works fine.

Geoff

I use a small 12v lead-acid battery ( used in alarms etc.) however, the drain is so low you could even use dry cells if you wanted to make up a set.

Richie

I bought one of those self powered timing lights in November and didn't try it out until today. Pushing the test button you get a dim light and I thought to myself this is about as good as a 12 volt light on 6 volts. Surprise!! When you connect the lead to #1 plug wire and push the timing button, wow, its as bright as any timing light I used back in the day. I love this thing. Thanks DocHornet for the tip. Richie.