1951 Hudson Hornet Starter broken

[Deleted User]

I have a 1951 Hudson Hornet 308 six cylinder engine with a broken starter housing. Does anyone out there have a starter or usable starter housing for sale? Thanks

PAULARGETYPE

MAB IF YOUR LOOKING FOR A HYDROMATIC STARTER I HAVE 3 OF THEM EMAIL ME HETHUDSON1957@AOL.COM DROP THE HET OFF THE EMAIL IT'S JUST RHERE FOR THE SPAM BUGS

[Deleted User]

Email sent

Lee ODell

MAB did you convert to 12V? Changing to 12V seems to be the main reason for broken starter problems. There was a resent post about aftermarket 12V starters with adaptors to fit Hudson engine to solve the broken hyromatic starter problem.

http://www.classiccar.com/forum/discussion/164465/hydramatic-starter-broken-nose-cones#Item_38

Lee O'Dell

Ol racer

FYI
It may be the 1st of Yr before I hear from the Company that's converting new Nepentenso quality Mini Starter's to Hudson. I talked with them at length and they will let me know when have a few available. I dont want to re-inquire so we dont appear anxious and may affect pricing.....

(This was not my idea. Another Person posted the Info on this Forum after the Company made him a Mini Starter that he liked.. I just followed up on the possibility of more...)

Kdancy

Who is the company that is making the Hudson 12V starter using a Nippendenso starter?
 I can't seem to find the old post from last year.
  Found it!
Terry Pittman, at Snap Rebuilders. 2140 South West Temple. South Salt Lake, UT 84115, Phone: 801-467-2902.
 $295.00 if your order direct. $325.00 on Ebay.
I just ordered one while on the phone with Terry.

Park_W

Mab000aolcom, if the car is running 12v now, you'll want to at least have the replacement Hudson starter converted to 12v.  It only involves changing out the field coils, which isn't very expensive.  Any decent starter-generator shop can do it.

Ol racer

FYI

Last Fall I took a '56 'burned up'  12V Starter for an older Chapter Member who didnt have anywhere in his Town to get it rebuilt to our local Rebuilder. He was using a 6V starter temporarily. I was suprised our reputable Shop charged over $200 for the rebuild less Drive clutch. I never had one rebuilt before so didnt know if comparable or not, but hated to hand the older member the Bill....

Kdancy

My recent experiences with cost in having 6v starter changed to 12v caused me to pull up this older thread. By the time I paid shipping on top of the job cost for conversion, then having one I had to pull back apart myself and have the company send me the right bendex as they had installed the wrong one, I figure I come out just as well getting a new modern starter the next go around.

Park_W

Kerry, if we can find or develop a modern one that works well and is readily available for $200 or less, I'd certainly recommend it.

Kdancy

Just thought I'd post an update on my experience with snap rebuilders.
I sent them a good 6109 starter to use for template to convert a new nippendenso starter
to work with the standard shift transmission. That was last August-September. After several months and me
E-mailing and calling I found out the job is actually subbed out to another shop. Finally got the new starter and installed it. Started chewing the bendix up and sounded like 4 cats with their tails on fire! Sent it back, waited
Another month or so, got it back and same results. So I asked Terry to rebuild my original starter andconvertto 12 volts. After another month or so, they said it was shipping out and gave me a tracking number. USPS lost it and he didn't insure the package. Playing the odds, said he had never lost one before.
Very frustrated at this point. He told me he had found another core and was shipping it out last week. Of course as of today, it's not been shipped.

dave s

Main reason starter nose cone breaks with 12 volt is when it kicks back.  You have to make sure timing is right on and don't try to start until bendix stops completely.   After I broke 3 nose cones the first year I learned this.  After that, I ran same starter for 15 years on 12 volts with no more problems. 

Kdancy

I pulled this up from my old notes on the subject--

A 6V
starter on 12V has 4X (not twice) as much power. Changing the two field windings
from parallel to series, the typical 12V 'conversion', will give you a
starter with 2X the power of the original. It's simple E=IxR and W=VA. 

Some rebuilders use a Ford
bendix and it won’t work properly in this application. Several Hudson guys have found this out and posted
about it on the forum. You must use the proper Hudson type Bendix. A few years
ago, I had to send one back to a rebuilder that installed
the wrong Bendix. I wound up buying the right one and installing it myself.

 

Kdancy

Terry at Snap Rebuilders is giving it another shot on the starter conversion (Nippendenso). I am speculating that the starter I sent that had tag number 6109 is actually from a  55-56 amc built 308.
I need to see if the bendix from the AMC area starters (308) is actually the same exact one as the Hudson built ones were. Terry doesn't know for sure but something was funky about that starter as it had a stater mounted solenoid as well and all my other 6109's are inner fender mount solenoids.
??
 He also didn't know about not using the Ford bendix and had one on a Hudson starter ready to go out. Was glad to get that info.

Park_W

Kerry, is this "parallel to
series" mod seen as an alternative to changing out the field coils to
12v version?  Hadn't heard of that tactic before.

  

Another thing that might help the gear situation. 
There's a type of Bendix that, when engaged with the flywheel, latches in the
"engaged" position until the engine starts.  This way, if you're
making repeated attempts to start the engine, you're not slamming the pinion
into the flywheel gear repeatedly.  It's already engaged.  My
starter-alternator shop showed one to me.  I stayed with the standard
type, but the latching version sounds like it might be easier on the gears.

 

Anyone had some experience with the latching type Bendix?

JasonNC

Attached is a photo of the starter bracket (with Chevy mini starter attached) that buddy and I made.  I took to a machine shop to see if they could make a duplicate that didn't look so rough.  He said he could and would as soon as he got caught up on his regular jobs.  That was in December.  Needless to say, he never got caught up and so I'm going to reinstall it on the car as is.  

SuperDave

Jason, Is that for a standard or automatic?

JasonNC

Standard.  Works pretty well too.  

Kdancy

I would have thought the chevy starter bendix would not have been the right pitch-tooth count. Hope this works long term, it would be a relatively cheap way to go.

Frankvintagefullflowcom

Keep an eye on that ring gear. Starter pinions that engage from the front have been known to eventually knock the ring-gear off of the flywheel. Now, that would turn into a project you don't want to do just for the hell of it. Hydra-Matics don't have that problem since the gear teeth are integral with the flywheel/torus cover.

F

JasonNC

Frank, I just broke the pinion on the old fashioned starter turning the engine without realizing that the car was in third gear.  Attached are photos of the mini starter that I just attached to the newly rebuilt engine (1) and what it looks like when the gear is engaged with the flywheel.  I have used this setup for nearly two years and so far it engaged the flywheel better than the old starter.  I hope you haven't jinxed me....

Frankvintagefullflowcom

Well, as the old saying goes, "the proof of the puddin' is in the eating". If it isn't doing any bad stuff and continues to perform well, it looks like it has potential as a low cost retrofit.

Cranking the engine (or attempting to) in third shouldn't have broken the pinion unless it was already on its way out, IMO, but it sparked a good idea. Is it at all noisy? One apparent advantage to that design is that the pinion engages the ring gear before the starter is energized. The Hudson/Autolite unit is the other way around. May I assume (you know what that means) that you were running the original on 12? If so, that may have had more to do with the pinion failure than anything else.

F