Too bad no pictures '54 Hornet with heavily moded 7X (or that is the story anyway)

50C8DAN

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/4155327841.html

J Spencer

Yes, pictures to back up all the hype would be nice.

PAULARGETYPE

I CALLED THIS MAN AND HE'S GOING TO SEND ME PHOTOS WHEN I GET THEM I WILL POST THEM HERE

ArkieJazz

He calls it a brougham.....does that mean it's a Hornet Special Club Sedan?

PAULARGETYPE

HERE ARE THE PHOTOS HE SENT HE SAID JACK CLIFORD DID THE ENGINE HIS NAME IS JOHN HE'S LOOKING TO DOWN SIZE HIS CARS HE LOST HIS WIFE AND IS MOVING TO A SR CENTER IT SOUNDS LA GIT TO ME HE'S 88 AND A LITTLE HARD OF HEARING

50C8DAN

I believe that is correct. These were the only Hornets (1954) available at 2 dr sedans I believe.

However seeing these pics this is a 4dr sedan.

oldhudsons

most leery of his claims of it being a full house Clifford engine - take a look at the head - NO high performance Hudson engine is going to use cap screws, which this engine has, 7X and any high compression Hornet engine is going to have a studded block - also, if Jack built this engine, as claimed, he most likely would have incorporated one of his special heads not this factory one.

PAULARGETYPE

MY THINKING IS EVEN IF IT'S A 7X AS THE MAN SAYS WHY PUT IT IN A SEDAN ??????

RL Chilton

Pete-

I'm pretty sure you know like a thousand times more about Hudsons than I will ever know, but, nevertheless, I'm going to disagree with you a little here. I wouldn't be so quick to write off the owner's claims and here's why:

1. No Cap screws: I take it you mean like acorn nuts, which I think I see in the pic. If that's what they are, then that means the block has been outfitted with head studs, clearly a deviation from stock. Incidentally, I was going to incorporate studs and double nut the head down on the engine for the convertible, which we just finished. A hardened nut and washer underneath and a pretty acorn nut above was my initial thought. In the end, I had too much money in the engine that we went with 1/2" bolts w/hardened washers (which was expensive enough to re-drill and tap the block).

2. Studded block: Again, not all high-compression engines are going to have studs. I think that's machinist's preference. Again, on my recent re-build we went with 1/2" hardened bolts and hardened washers.

3. Jack wouldn't necessarily have used one of his own heads. The engine in my sedan was built by Jack and he used a stock head. GRANTED, it is a stock 308 in my sedan. This engine in the ad, being a "high performance" engine, well, maybe the customer had an aluminum head on hand, wanted to use it and didn't see the need for springing for another high performance head that said "Clifford" on it.

Obviously some work has been done on this engine. Perhaps the owner has the docs to back up the claims.

RL Chilton

Remember, not all of us think alike even though we all like the same marque. Paul, maybe that was the car he had as a young man, or one just like it. Maybe he didn't have (or want) a coupe, or some other body style. Maybe money was a big factor. Who knows? Serial # would tell a lot.

Hudsonrules

Be wary of this guy, know him. He is a good talker, but I would think twice before dealing with him. He has tried to sell Hudson's in the WTN from time to time.

oldhudsons

RL - I bought a '50 conv. in about '64 that had a complete factory 7X engine which the original owner had purchased in '53 when they 1st became avail. to the public. It had 1/2" studded block which was std. equip. It also had the 7X dual exh. manifold. The engine had about 10K on it when I bought the car.
I agree with #2 as if you have to remove the head it's easier to do if you have cap screws.
Agree with #3 also as his heads were quite expensive & he went into business a long time before he started making his own special heads.

RL Chilton

Pete-

Don't think for a second that I thought this engine was an ORIGINAL 7x, but rather one that had been modified long after one could have bought one over the counter. You and I have talked about your 7X in the past. Along with what I have learned from fellow Hudson folks, and what I have read, I'm fairly familiar with the modifications.

Hudsonrules sounds as though he knows the seller. So maybe a yarn is being spun, at least to some degree.

Lastly, regardless of all of this, I thnk he's asking too much for what he has. I think he will be lucky to get close to 20K.

Glowplug

Just for information, Jack built engines for others and they were built to the requirements set by the buyer. The engines he built were based on the customers core and rotating assemblies. Having had the opportunity to visit with Jack it was obvious to me the intent of his engine builds were to satisfy the customer and provide a performance improvement. Even though Jack was a Hudson affectionato, and engineer, it might pain some to hear, Jack was a hot rodder at heart and he was always looking for a way to make his car faster than the other guys. His attitude attracted others to his shop with the hope their engine would match the performance of Jack's Hornet. The attached picture is of Jack and the torn down engine from his 54 Hornet drag car. Saying that, I have ZERO knowledge of the owner or the car shown in the origin of this thread.

Browniepetersen

Paul, Just thought that I would mention that often sedans were used at the Bonneville Salt Flats and for CanAmerican racing. The engine that is in my 54 coupe was prepared by Ike Smith and used a 308 head with bolts and acorn caps on the bolts. I think that it is safe to say that with Hudson racing there really was no standard. Perhaps Lee Odell will chime in because he has a 7X engine in one of the 54's he bought.

super-six

I'm wondering if that car is St. Clair Gray, Corinthian Cream, or gray primer. It doesn't look very shiney in the pics. It does have a blue firewall. I wouldn't think it would be Corinthian Cream with blue interior. And what does it take to get 375ci. out of a 308?

lostmind

I'm thinking it was gray first , blue next , cream next?

50C8DAN

Aw come on guys it was blue that faded to cream out in the California sun.

Lee ODell

Brownie, I wish the engine in the 54 I bought from the George Lauder estate was a 7X. The vin and engine numbers match. I am parting out the car and have cut it up down to the frame to save the perimeter frame. Bigger job than expected. The 54 2dr special my son bought doesn't have 7X either. Possibly the 54 Chris bought has 7X engine. The engine had studs with 7X exhaust manifold and car is all set up for drag racing. Three of George's cars that sold had 7x exhaust systems. I believe each sold for probably less than what a 7X exhaust manifold alone would sell for today. I bought the last car there, the 54 w/twin h and overdrive. Gave everyone else first shot at them.

Lee O'Dell

Browniepetersen

Thanks for the update Lee. I could not remember from my visit to the house. It has been a long process but I expect to have mine running by Christmas.