priming the oil system

Chris Smith

I'm about ready to start my 308 for the initial break in period after a complete rebuild. I would like to see oil pressure before I fire it but have not seen it cranking the engine with the plugs out. I did not forget the pan o ring and I tried packing grease in the pump to help pull some oil out of the pan. No luck yet. Is it possible that the pump won't won't draw oil at cranking speeds? Anyone have a method of priming the system?

GrimGreaser

If you can, pull the gear off the oil pump, reinstall, and run it with a drill. Or track down another pump without a gear just for priming purposes.

Geoff

 All I do is take out the oil pressure sender switch and using a pump oil can, fill the chamber with oil.   This goes directly into the oil gallery, hence into the pump and the crank.

lostmind

There are pre lube kits available. They contain oil in a pressurized can with a line kit you install into

the sender opening. They can be had from engine rebuilders. Not to difficult to rig up your own.

J Spencer

I used to use Vasoline petroleum jelly packed into the pump on motors with external style pumps like Buick
V-6 and V-8's and Mopar V-8's. Worked well for me plus the vasoline would mix in with the oil OK. Not to sure about some greases. As mentioned external pre lube kits are available.

Jim Spencer
WNY Chapter

Chris Smith

I found out that my pump was pulling oil from the pan but my inner Mcgyver got me to figure out how to make a pressurized pre oiler and I got the system up to 20 psi with the engine off so I know oil is everywhere it should be before I start it. Thanks for the help.

:-bd

Frankvintagefullflowcom

Chris,
Although likely too late for this project, you may want to consider this conversion for your next one.

www.vintagefullflow.com

Frank

Kdancy

Frank,
When will the Hudson 232-262-308 be ready?

Frankvintagefullflowcom

I now have the first test castings of the big Hudson and Chrysler units. (have a look at the web site "Updates" page and new gallery photos). I'm very pleased with the quality and accuracy of these parts but do have a couple of minor "adjustments" to make before ordering a run. They are largely cosmetic and don't affect the work I'm doing now. I'm spending all of my time in the shop, scratching my head and creating the fixtures necessary to do the machine work on a production basis.
To answer your question.....almost.....I expect to be another week on this effort and the pattern-maker will need some time to implement the adjustments before a run will be ordered. He won't do a final set until I have actually made a finished part from the castings I have. Not a bad policy. He wants to get it all in one whack.
I'm reluctant to predict a date but I can say, "I'm on it like rust on a Stepdown floor pan".

Frank

ivanz62

You know I'm looking forward to the parts arriving!

Ivan

ski4life65

I just looked at the website. These look great! Nice job Frank

Frankvintagefullflowcom

Thanks to all.
It has been a long process but I'm closing in on it.
Ivan, I can feel you looking over my shoulder all day. The up-side is that it keeps me all too aware of how important it is to get it right.
Frank

brumac

Hi Frank,
   I too am looking over your shoulder too but at a distance.   My plans are for late summer and hope you will be ready then.  Bruce

RL Chilton

Frank-

Pardon my ignorance, but a couple of questions for you:

Can this adaptor be utilized on a used engine (i.e., not a fresh re-build)?

 

Will the addition of your VFF up the oil pressure to the heights of a more modern engine and what effects would that have on a non-currently re-built engine?

One of the reasons I ask is I am scheduled to fire up my new re-built engine within the month and was curious if I should wait on that or can I retro-fit your unit when available?

TwinH

My 308 came with a homebuilt full flow conversion that I upgraded on my new build but its all coming back off when Frank gets his ready.

RL Chilton

"Upping the oil pressure will accelerate the wear on the bronze oilpump/ distributor drive gear. As long as you have 15-20 PSI at idle and 35-40 PSI cruising, you should be fine in a street driven Hudson. Rule of thumb is 10 PSI for every 1000 RPM. If you do up the oil pressure, you'd  best replace the Oil gallery pressed in cups with threaded pipe plugs, as the old cups were known to seep or blow out at higher PSI's than stock."

Hence, the reason for my concern . . .

Frankvintagefullflowcom

Ditto.
IMO, there's no reason to increase oil pressure over what the OEM engineers determined to be adequate. If you have low O/P issues, there are a number of reasons that may cause that, only one of which would be corrected by installation of the VFF conversion: weak or broken pressure regulator spring. Of course, if that was the case, you'd likely just correct that problem unless you wanted to add FF oil filtration. All other reasons are related to engine condition. So, that's to say that if you are experiencing low pressure due to wide bearing clearances, etc., the VFF will do nothing to change that.
I have designed the device to produce the stock, specified pressure, which is not to say that it can't be changed, but why? An increase in pressure requires more power, which adds load to the driving elements of the pump.......for no gain.
I'd have to write a book to discuss all of the considerations involving oil pressure, as the factors entering into that discussion are many. I'll work on it........

RL, To answer the used/fresh question, it can be retrofitted to any of the 232-262-308 family with the engine in the car (as I did on the dark platinum Hornet). This is true of the 202 jet/Wasp engine and the Chryslers, unless Chrysler has some frame clearance issues in models I've not seen. One of my design goals was that it be installable (is that a word?) by an individual of ordinary skill and mechanical knowledge with common tools. I see three fuzzy statements there but that was the goal. Define "ordinary" and "common".

Needless to say, the time to install it is when your freshly rebuilt engine is on the stand. Easier, safer, cleaner AND affords the advantage of true Full Flow filtration right from the first revolution, the most important time to do so.
Great......now I've got a book to write, too.

If I may say so, the 10 psi/1000rpm rule is questionable. IF you have an engine that exhibits a nearly linear rise in pressure, i.e., pressure proportionate with RPM, you should suspect that it has a big "leak" somewhere.......that could simply (usually does) mean excessive bearing clearances. A healthy Hudson will show a reasonable idle pressure (20+, mine idles at 38) and quickly rise in the next few hundred, stabilizing at the design pressure from there on. That's what the regulator is for.

Back to work..........

Frank

DavidC

I had the same concern about a dry start when starting mine. Packed oil pump with vaseline. Was able to use a $15 pump sprayer from Home Depot piped in to oil system just before an underhood oil pressure gauge. Put 2 qts oil in the canister. Achieved 20 psi per the oil press gauge, and then slowly turned over motor manually for 2-3 revolutions. Saw fresh oil at lifters. Started motor, got instant pressure reading of 40 at 2000+ RPM.
Dave

RL Chilton

Thank you , Frank . . . you just sold me.  Looking forward to the finished product.