Pulled the Drum, Nothing Inside!

[Deleted User]

I'm working on the brakes of my '54 Jet.  I pulled the front left drum off and found NOTHING inside!

Does anyone know a source for the correct parts?

I need:
1) wheel cylinder (the one I received from Rock Auto isn't correct)
2) upper and lower brake spring
3) 2 retaining clips for the brake pads

I really appreciate any help. I have only until Satuday to complete the car, then it's headed to Florida.

M-

Ol racer

FYI
I never had a Jet but ive located everything I need for brake hardware & lining from local NAPA or Advance Auto for my Hudson's....

Jon B

You might try someone in the Club who knows a lot about Jets.

Sarah Young runs "Hudson Jet.net" and might be able to direct you to someone -- or to some technical literature -- that would give you the info you need.

Charlie Nau and Jerry Bean maintain the rosters for still-existing Jets (Jetliner and "regular" Jets, respectively).  You'll find their contact info. on the "registries" under the "INFO" tab, on the H-E-T homepage.

Unfortunately, I don't see any Jet shop manuals or parts manuals available for download, at the H-E-T homepage.

Maybe a Jet expert will stick his nose in here and offer some help!

Jon B

Matter of fact, I just went over to Hudson Jet.net and Sarah has a whole section on rebuilding Jet brakes!

http://home.comcast.net/~sarahdyoung/hudsonjetbrakes.html

Geoff

The Jet brakes are pretty standard Wagner Lockheed, with 1-1/8" cylinders.  Seem strange that  there would be nothing in there! there is nothing interchangeable with the Senior models, but probably same as Studebaker.   I have some spare brake shoes  and springs, but  getting them from N.Z. to you would take a while, so you  will probably be better off sourcing form somewhere closer.   Front and back are identical apart from the cylinders, which are 15/16" on the  rear.  leading and trailing shoes are the same but  have different  lengths of lining on them for some strange reason.  i put full lining on both shoes with good results. I have no idea why one shoe has shorter lining than the other.   Good  luck.

Geoff 

53jetman

The industry part number for the brake shoes is #51, but sometimes can be hard to get.  Willys used the same identical brake system on some of the two wheel drive Jeeps of the period, so the brake hardware and hydraulics would therefore be the same, and I beleive there were some of the '47 thru '50 Studebakers and Nashes also used similar systems.

Frankvintagefullflowcom

I predict that you will never find a new front cylinder. I have searched extensively and thought I'd nailed it several times only to find someone lied. Rock was on that list. Good luck but you'll likely need to find a used one and sleeve if necessary.
The rear cyl. is fairly common, but if you do need them, be sure to keep the original pistons (the Al ones with the steel center button) because you will need to transplant those to the new ones.

Frankvintagefullflowcom

Dang this thing!!! I wrote a book (as usual) and it didn't go with the first part (above) I'll try again!

The fronts are casting # 15429 and are p/n 15427 & 8. If you find one and need to rebuild it, keep the original piston w/steel button (like the rear) and use NAPA 2936 cups and 5901 boots to match the original pistons.
Those rears cyls.are NAPA 36029, lt. or rt., and you will need NAPA 5994 boots for the pistons.
Those shoes are direct acting on the piston with no shoe-link like most, hence the steel wear button in the center.
F

Chris Smith

Jason at Vintage Coach in Fontana CA  has a few Jet parts cars in his yard. 909-823-9168

[Deleted User]

Thanks for the tips. I've contacted Sarah and have been using her web site daily.  She's emailing me a lot too, which is greatly appreciated.

I've found the hoses on NapaONline and the springs (I hope they're correct) on the Kaiserwillys web site.

I still can't find a wheel cylinder. Napa lists one of that era that looks similar, but is 1" and and 1 1/8". 

I can't find R51 or RS-51 brake pads. I see some sites list a '54 Jet using R55 pads. (once again, they "look" similar.)

53jetman

The R55 are the rears for the senior models (Wasp & Hornet) will not fit the Jets

[Deleted User]

Just happened to find a set of RS-51 brake shoes, so I'm feeling very good today.

Now, about those dang wheel cylinders. I see a nash rambler cylinder is close in dimensions and reportedly Nash used the same parts in their braking systems.  It's 1" instead of 1 1/8"... but any thoughts on using these for a Jet?

Thanks!

ski4life65

Does anyone have a copy of this "industry standard" list of brake shoe part numbers? I have a bunch of new shoes but no way to identify them. I pulled out the #18's for my Hornets, but I have no idea what the rest of these go to.

Frankvintagefullflowcom

I had considered using the 1" dia. cylinders on our Jet brake rebuild but was able to rebuild one and I sleeved the other. The downside of using the 1" (assuming it's identical in all other respects) is that you'll sacrifice about 20% braking effort on the front wheels in a brake system that's already considered (by some) to be barely adequate. That coupled with some affect on front/rear balance made it a no-brainer for me.
I'll get my hands on a 1" and confirm that it is or ain't a match in all other respects. One thing is likely for sure, it won't have the correct piston for the #51 which is a directly actuated shoe w/o shoe links.
F

Geoff

A small side issue. I have always wondered why one show has more lining than  the other on the Wagner Lockheed brakes fitted to the Jet. .  Asked a retired brake specialist and he says the smaller lining should go on the trailing shoe to reduce the pressure  on the rear brake piston.   Because these brake shoes are floating in each half, and rest against a fixed peg on the backing plate, if there is too much lining on the  trailing shoe it can force itself against the pedal pressure and go into the brake cylinder.  Plus  all of the "servo" action is on the leading shoe, hence more wear, so a smaller lining length on the trailing show means the  wear is equalised between the shoes.  I have seen them fitted both ways, so was unsure which way round they should go and have never been able to find this information form the Hudson workshop manuals.   Applies only to Jet and I believe Hash Wasp, as all other models were Bendix brakes, where the shoes are linked together at the bottom, and have equal servo action. 

Frankvintagefullflowcom

Although this is pretty much an old subject, I though I'd do a follow up on that 1" dia. cylinder.
That 1" cyl. looks promising (a NAPA UP 9004 & 5) and will mount correctly to the backing plate, has the same inlet fitting and sports the steel shoe contact button, BUT it is offset inward by 1/16th", exactly the radial difference between it and the correct 1-1/8th" cyl. Vertical position on the backing plate is the same.
The result would be that the shoe web centerline would be 1/16th outward on the piston, tending to cock it in the bore.
Shimming it outward sounds like a simple solution but has it's own set of drawbacks, and to cover my a**, I wouldn't recommend it.
My approach (if I should ever need to do it): do a "build-up" of weld on the drum side of the backing plate over the entire cylinder mounting area and re-machine the mounting area and holes to the original configuration, effectively increasing the backing plate thickness by .063" (ish) on that side.
One would still need to assess the effect of the loss of braking effectiveness/increase of pedal effort for the same force at the shoe, then decide if it's worth the risk.

F

Jon B

mbsxk8, in a pinch (regarding the wheel cylinders) you could shoot some e-mails around to Hudson vendors (such as those advertising in the WTN) and ask if they have any 1-1/8" used cylinders.  Maybe Sarah will know of someone who regularly parts out Jets, or is known to have a lot of parts for them. 

If you can find used, it's an easy process to send them out to be sleeved.  You will then never have to worry about them again. (Even if you found brand new ''old stock" original cylinders, they could corrode in the future.  Stainless sleeves will never do that.)  One place that does this is White Post Restorations, not far from me in Virginia.  But there are others as well.

Jon B

There is a very slim chance that a friend of mine might have one or two new ones squirreled away amongst boxes and boxes of Hudson parts.  (He too has a Jet, among other Hudsons)  He will try to take a look in a couple of days so -- if you find one between now and then -- please let us know, here at the forum.  That way I can stop him for spending time going through all those boxes!

He might have a master cylinder and shoes (though it sounds like you found those).  And he knows where to obtain the brake hose.