'50 Commodore 6, "Bluega"

[Deleted User]

Hello all!  First off I'll admit I'm a bit late in this, I've had the Commodore for about a year now, but only started working on it since January.

A little background.  I'm a young'un, turning 23 in about a week, but certainly not unfamiliar with the fun and frustration of older vehicles.  In my collection, there is a modern Subaru that I spent a summer building a supercharger setup for, an '83 Porsche 944 used as a track rat, and then the oldies.  Given to me by my grandfather when he moved and no longer had room, a 1966 Volkswagen Squareback!  This is an all-original survivor, it was only driven in the summer.

Then of course, the Commodore, "Bluega".  There is a TSD rally called "The Great Race" which is limited to old vehicles (this year the cutoff was moved up to 1972).  In 2012, I competed in the Squareback, but for a multitude of reasons it wasn't a good car (lack of power being one!).  So I set out in search of another candidate.  Primarily the race needs torque and handling, but also the older the better, as there's an adjustment factor applied for the age.  Now, I'm a little too young to really like the old speedsters from the 20's and 30's.  My father, on the other hand, has no problem with that and he's running a '32 Buick with a speedster body this year in the Race.  I had fallen in love with the step-down bodies, and they check most of the requirements.  The main challenge was finding one in good enough condition it could be run, but bad enough condition it wouldn't be a shame to rag it hard.  At first glance, this may not seem to fit:

But when you dig down a little, it becomes clear she's not exactly new.  What you may not be able to see is the front-most water neck mounting hole is broken off the front of the head.

Also, there was just a SMALL amount of frame repair needed...

Luckily I came armed with a MIG welder!  :evil: 

So this is where she sits today:

It came with spares of just about everything, as well as most of the documentation you could ever want (including the 1950 original bill of sale!).  Right now Bluega is running, but not without issues...

While the stuck clutch did come free, the pedal is VERY near the top of the range to engage, and the clutch slips easily when changing to 2nd.  As of yet I can't get it to slip once engaged, and I haven't yet had a chance to try the adjuster.  Is the high engagement point normal, or should I be preparing to pull the transmission?

The driver's front shock mounting plate is not only gone, but part of the a-arm mount for it is gone.  Fear not, a fix is in the works, I simply need to wait until I have access to our lift (the Buick is currently immobile on it).

Most of the chrome isn't on because it will be getting painted.  Unfortunately no body shops have time to do so before the Great Race, so it will be rattlecans.  At least they will be matched to the original Oriental Green thanks to Tower.

Finally, the most worrying, there is a shaking experienced when turning left, that permeates the whole car.  When turning right, smooth, and when traveling forward, a very light shuddering (light enough I had to concentrate to notice it).  I suspect this has something to do with the thumping when the car misfires at idle (the carb is running exceedingly rich).  The tires are new and balanced, and the steering is tight.  Right now our working theory is a slightly tight brake drum on the driver's side, or worn/missing transmission mount.  Better ideas?

A minor annoyance, with a brand-new exhaust...  There's still a leak.  It's either in the header or the heat riser, but I'm having trouble pinpointing where, which is surprising considering how loud it is.  Do the heat riser flaps often have this leak issue?

Jon B

Welcome to the Hudson forum (actually, one of the two Hudson forums at the H-E-T website).  Sounds like you have a LOT of work to do in a small amount of time.  But you've come to the right place for advice.

I'm sure you'll get a lot of advice on your car from the helpful folks here.  Possibly one of us is in your vicinity and could lend a hand (or at least take a look and render some advice), so do mention where you're located.

The frame rust is typical of a Hudson that's probably been left outside, or driven on salty roads, at some point in its life.  Once the problem is fixed (and you seem to have thrown yourself fearlessly into that) it may never return again.  So long as you garage the car on a nice concrete floor. 

As to the clutch...well, you might want to invest in a good rebuilt one from one of our resident clutch experts, before heading out on that Great Race!  For the time being I'd ask.....have you replaced the clutch fluid lately?

46HudsonPU

Welcome aboard! 

Love the photos, glad to see that you are having fun with your 'new ride'..

Good to have you.  I'm sure you'll find a wealth of information here.

You may also want to visit the Hudson Essex Terraplane Club website, and consider joining that Club - Members come for the cars, and stick around because of the great folks there!

We hope you enjoy your time here at the Hudson Essex Terraplane 'Open Forum' -

SuperDave

I see a NY Tag on the Hudson. Are you in the empire state ?

[Deleted User]

Sorry, this was more or less a copy-paste from the HET club page, so some things were lost in translation.  I am in NY, Troy area.  I'm actually in a little village called Melrose you wouldn't have heard of unless you are familiar.

I do have a new clutch plate, courtesy of Wildrick Restorations (along with a lot of weatherseal yet to be installed), but the idea of pulling the transmission isn't one I want to consider two weeks before leaving.  The fluid was drained and the cleaning mix put through it three or four times, then refilled when it came free and changed once after a short drive.  Would being overfilled cause the high pedal?  I admit I wasn't as careful the second time around.

Ol racer

FYI

Real Nice job on the Frame repair. Thats a common problem with Hudson's that have sat a period of time..

 Im not an expert on Standard's anymore but if you have flushed & refilled the clutch fluid I suggest adjusting the clutch lower. It should never grab up at the top.... If the lower adjustment doesnt help, pull the trans and change the clutch. Its really not that difficult because unlike modern cars, the floorboard is removable.

The shudder you feel turning left may be something loose in the front end, perhaps a couple suspension mount bolts are not tight allowing slight shifting on turn, Suggest look closer and/or put onto a front end machine.

For Carb richness, check if the Air Cleaner is clean. I would use a Paper Element then try adjusting the mixture screws. If need any Carb Parts contact Daytona Carb (In Fl) to overnight them, or bolt on any modern V8 carb that will fit.

The Exh Damper should be free and swivel. Sometimes the flange elbow below the manifold will crack and leak or the flange gasket isnt tight. Rarely a Manifold gasket will leak or an 'ear' may be cracked, but shouldnt stop your competing.

When assemble The thermosat  housing after stud repair suggest putting a 1" CUP Type soft plug in the inside Top of the goose neck to plug the original internal ByPass, then drill a small hole in the center of the plug and in the side of a modern Ford V8 Thermostat # 3043320Delco or Equilivant.

If your going to 'horse' the car in this Race, I suggest putting 'bolts' thru the two center drive shaft Bearing Rubber Mounts or the studs will rip out of the rubber. Use locknuts but dont compress them real tight. The Driveline wont be as smooth as when mounted in studs, but believe me, you wont have the driveshaft rip loose and flop around hitting the floorboard causing you to stop.

Good Luck & Post pictures....

Glowplug

Sorry, this was more or less a copy-paste from the HET club page, so some things were lost in translation.  I am in NY, Troy area.  I'm actually in a little village called Melrose you wouldn't have heard of unless you are familiar.

I do have a new clutch plate, courtesy of Wildrick Restorations (along with a lot of weatherseal yet to be installed), but the idea of pulling the transmission isn't one I want to consider two weeks before leaving.  The fluid was drained and the cleaning mix put through it three or four times, then refilled when it came free and changed once after a short drive.  Would being overfilled cause the high pedal?  I admit I wasn't as careful the second time around.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

You are in luck , A Hudson expert lives very near to you.   His name is Larry Cramer and is a frequent poster on this forum.  His handle is Uncle Josh.   You can contact Larry via email  NVcramerlp@roadrunner.com  remove the NV from the email before trying to connect. 

Lee ODell

I have tried to email Larry at that address a few times but get a message that is the wrong address.
Is there another email address for Larry.
Lee O'Dell

SuperDave

Ol Racer...I am thinking that the noise he is hearing IS the center driveline mounts..

Jon B

I'm sure that's the right address....at least as of the end of April!  Of course, you have to remove the "NV" first....

[Deleted User]

FYI

Real Nice job on the Frame repair. Thats a common problem with Hudson's that have sat a period of time..

 Im not an expert on Standard's anymore but if you have flushed & refilled the clutch fluid I suggest adjusting the clutch lower. It should never grab up at the top.... If the lower adjustment doesnt help, pull the trans and change the clutch. Its really not that difficult because unlike modern cars, the floorboard is removable.

The shudder you feel turning left may be something loose in the front end, perhaps a couple suspension mount bolts are not tight allowing slight shifting on turn, Suggest look closer and/or put onto a front end machine.

For Carb richness, check if the Air Cleaner is clean. I would use a Paper Element then try adjusting the mixture screws. If need any Carb Parts contact Daytona Carb (In Fl) to overnight them, or bolt on any modern V8 carb that will fit. 

The Exh Damper should be free and swivel. Sometimes the flange elbow below the manifold will crack and leak or the flange gasket isnt tight. Rarely a Manifold gasket will leak or an 'ear' may be cracked, but shouldnt stop your competing.

When assemble The thermosat  housing after stud repair suggest putting a 1" CUP Type soft plug in the inside Top of the goose neck to plug the original internal ByPass, then drill a small hole in the center of the plug and in the side of a modern Ford V8 Thermostat # 3043320Delco or Equilivant.

If your going to 'horse' the car in this Race, I suggest putting 'bolts' thru the two center drive shaft Bearing Rubber Mounts or the studs will rip out of the rubber. Use locknuts but dont compress them real tight. The Driveline wont be as smooth as when mounted in studs, but believe me, you wont have the driveshaft rip loose and flop around hitting the floorboard causing you to stop.

Good Luck & Post pictures....

All excellent ideas, and I'm glad to hear the clutch isn't working like it should.  I did end up figuring that out today anyway, as I picked up my Great Race navigator for a little run around and once he and a full tank of fuel was added, it got really bad.  Later today it couldn't even climb ramps because it was slipping so badly.  I did refill it with the correct amount, but the ramps were not confidence inspiring and I didn't feel like poking my head under a badly supported two-ton car to try the adjuster.  Also discovered a hydraulic leak in the brakes...  But while the removable floorboard is a very nice touch for accessing the transmission, I can't get the brake pedal off.  No puller small enough that I can seem to find, and the nut spins but refuses to budge.  If necessary just cut and add a flap...

As for the shudder, I've begun to suspect two things- a bad (or non-existent) alignment and a dragging drum/loose wheel bearing.  I could hear a pulsing noise from the front of the car in time with the shudder when experimenting today.  When it's on the lift, it's another thing to check.

The carb richness was a double-pain because not only did the PO claim it was rebuilt, I rebuilt it to no change.  The air cleaner is an oil-bath type, and does have an appropriate oil level.  It does drive reasonably well, and I haven't yet checked timing so that could also be the cause.

The damper is free to move, and the largest exhaust leak turned out to be the shop having never tightened the bolts that hold the flange!  The inner nut & bolt was even welded loose, so I have to cut that bolt once on the lift.  I plan on having words with them about that.  However, even after the other side was tightened and the leak from that was mostly gone, I could still feel and hear a puffing that seems to come straight out of the split in the shaft that holds the thermostatic coil.  The leak is small enough I could certainly live with it, however.

The thermostat neck, the PO had purchased both the modern thermostat kit and oil filter kit from Walt Mordenti, so there is the appropriate aluminum plate under the neck with the pinhole in that.  It is currently running without a thermostat (removed when I suspected it wasn't opening but turned out to be a plugged radiator), but hovers around 160-170 even in 85* weather.  I plan on installing another thermostat, but it's a "if there's time" item.  The race is only run in the summer, after all...  There is a 6V cooling fan on it's way from Moss Motors as well.

The driveshaft carrier bolt is a great idea!  From what I saw the rubber mounts already had studs in each side though, so how do I install a clamping bolt?

Ol Racer...I am thinking that the noise he is hearing IS the center driveline mounts..

Not sure how it could be...  The noise mostly occurs while sitting still at idle, with no driveshaft rotation.  Unless you mean the bushings are gone already and the driveshaft is free?  The clunking is coming from towards the front however...  I suspect a bad transmission mount, I ordered a new one and a new set of engine mounts.

You are in luck , A Hudson expert lives very near to you.   His name is Larry Cramer and is a frequent poster on this forum.  His handle is Uncle Josh.   You can contact Larry via email  NVcramerlp@roadrunner.com  remove the NV from the email before trying to connect. 

Excellent news!  I will absolutely send him an email!

Ol racer

FYI
 If the rubber and studs look good and dont move when you push on the shaft they may be fine but are a 'weak link'  if want to race hard. Remove the top & bot Studs, then dill thru the rubber and install bolt & locknut

Jon B

One thing's for sure.  Get as many miles on that car (before the Race) as you can, in order that these gremlins make themselves known NOW, so you can fix them!

You DID say you had a shop manual....right?

[Deleted User]

Well, despite its name, it's not a true "race".  It's a public road event, no faster than 50MPH (since many of the antiques can barely manage that).  The only hard work is hills that require a constant speed, and the old VW didn't have enough power for those, that's why I had to rev it out.  I don't expect to have that problem with the Commodore.  If there's time to deal with the center mounts I'll solidify them, but it shouldn't be an issue for the Great Race at least.

And yes, I do have  a shop manual, both printed and saved as a PDF.

As for the clutch, the local shop is down a man right now (carpal tunnel), so the current deal is I'll be helping work on it there.  Everything but the flywheel will be new, it's all on its way.  That will probably start next week, so this week is finishing the bodywork.  There's a gallon of Oriental Green on its way.

Jon B

 I don't know if you have checked in with the Hudson folks in your area, but if not you might want to.  You never know who might have parts you'd need.  (For instance there's a fellow in Amsterdam who has traditionally had a lot of NOS Hudson parts that he sells.)  "Uncle Josh" in Northville publishes the Hudson-Mohawk chapter's newsletter and knows a lot about Hudsons in the area -- also he could tell you when the next get-together is.  Someone in the chapter might know of good, Hudson-friendly mechanics and machine shops (in Amsterdam, again, there's a machine shop right in an old Hudson dealership building).  And you could probably get a few good ideas on how to fix some of the problems you're encountering.

It pays to tap into the network, 'cause you never know when you may need it!

[Deleted User]

True enough, I'm sending emails tonight.  Yesterday I was on the road from 7 to midnight, had no time to make contact.

onerare39

Any updates on your project.  Are you going to get everything done in time for the race?

John Forkner

[Deleted User]

Well, I can't say yes for sure as there's always a chance to go wrong, but right now it's looking hopeful.  I adjusted the clutch and it seems to have mitigated the issue, though I haven't fully loaded the car with people and fuel.

The floors are fully repaired and painted, as well as I found some applicable marine carpet in nearly the correct color, so I can rebuild that.

The clunking has been narrowed down to excessive transmission movement, though what exactly is clunking is hard to find.  It seems the be the rod that actually moves the clutch lever.  The mount desperately needs to be replaced, but I can't tell if there's a third bolt in it?  There's two that hold it to the frame, obviously, but is there a third that attaches to the transmission?

I'm having a fear on the fuel pump right now though.  I've heard the combined fuel/vacuum units can fail and leak fuel into the crank, and I swear the oil looks thin.  It doesn't smell too strongly of gas, no more so than I'd expect from an old engine, but it's full, at the top of the range, and I know it leaks.  I have pulled the pump before to find out why it wasn't working, the diaphragms were shiny and new.  On the fence about using an Airtex E8902 and simply looping the mechanical pump.  It would keep it available if necessary, but that way there's no chance of fuel mixing with the oil.  Thoughts?

Jon B

No thoughts on the fuel pump, but if I were you I'd take a good spare along.  And spares of other components too, that are known to be in good shape.  Even if they're not new or rebuilt.  Such as a water pump, generator, maybe starter, and a voltage regulator (you can find NOS regulators on Ebay). Maybe even one of those axle bearings that Paul Schuster managed to find a bunch of.  Of course you'll want to take a full set of tools.

And, take your National roster (assuming you've joined the H-E-T) because next to many of the names are small icons which denote them as members of the Tourist Emergency Help network -- people willing to lend a hand or some tools or even parts, if you happen to break down in their backyard.  That way, you might enjoy a bit more piece of mind on your upcoming adventure!