35 terraplane, she is acting like a Fix Or Repair Daily (FORD)

farmermike

I was heading for the monthly Gem State HET club meeting in Wallace , Id. and had an issue. The poor splasher decided to eat her timing gear. AARRGG!! I am attaching some photos of the carnage. What happened was I was cruising along I-90 at  48 mph. and the bakalight timing gear  stripped.

I had a neighbor haul me back home and helped me diagnose the problem. She stripped some of the teeth off of the timing gear. I took some photos of what we found.

I need a Bakalite  (or similar) cam gear, a seal for the timing gear housing, and a  part that goes over the crankshaft that the seal rides on.

Can any of you guys point me in the right direction on where to find these parts?

Thanks,

Mike

Lee ODell

I hope you drop the oil pan and tray to remove any gear teeth that found their way there.
Lee O'Dell

Huddy42

If this is a 6 cylinder,you are one lucky boy, as often when these give way you do heaps of damage, often the rod comes out the side of the block due to a collision internally,try PAUL LARGE TYPE and see if he has an aluminium gear set, both camshaft and crankshaft gears have to be replaced due to different pressure angle of the teeth , also a couple of other mods are required, but, if Paul has one ,I'm sure he will fill you in on them. And as Lee has suggested you must find and remove all the old fibre teeth from the motor internally.Drop the sump and make sure all the oil galleries are clear of old teeth etc.

46HudsonPU

The engine is a popular one, covering multiple years.  Don't know if there are differences between the years that may affect the parts you can use, however you can go online to the HET Club website, and look thru Alex Burr's online manuals, in particular the 'Interchangeability Manual' -

http://www.hetclub.org/burr/other/1927-1950InterchangeManual.pdf

Also, the area where you'll find manuals on your '35 -

http://www.hetclub.org/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=495

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Parts?

 

Paul Schuster (PAULARGETYPE): XXXhudson1957@aol.com, 412-462-two zero five eight

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Dale Cooper - contact info on website (you'll need to call, he doesn't do email):

http://www.hudsonmotorcarco.com/

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Randy & Russ Maas:

http://21stcenturyhudson.net/

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Just to get you started...  Others may chime-in, with alternatives for the parts you need.

PAULARGETYPE

MAKE SURE YOU CHECK FOR THE CAM SPACER BEHIND THE CAM FLANGE WITH OUT IT THERE WILL BE MORE TROUBLE YOU SHOULD TRY AND FIND A USE 8 CLY GEAR THEY ARE ALUM. YOU WILL NEED THE CRANK GEAR ALSO THEY ARE A MATCHED SET I DO NOT HAVE ANY AT THIS TIME ( I WOULD NOT INSTALL A FIBER GEAR)  IF YOU DO YOU ASKING FOR  MORE TROUBLE !!!

hudsontech

The late Kelly "TK" Hinegardner was an expert at changing out timing gears - alongside the road.  I've seen pictures of his 37 pulled over with half the sheetmetal in the front end (grille, etc) as he pulled it apart to fix it.  Kelly did machine some replacement aluminum gears, but he passed back in 2005 so that won't help you.

Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN

46HudsonPU

MAKE SURE YOU CHECK FOR THE CAM SPACER BEHIND THE CAM FLANGE WITH OUT IT THERE WILL BE MORE TROUBLE YOU SHOULD TRY AND FIND A USE 8 CLY GEAR THEY ARE ALUM. YOU WILL NEED THE CRANK GEAR ALSO THEY ARE A MATCHED SET I DO NOT HAVE ANY AT THIS TIME ( I WOULD NOT INSTALL A FIBER GEAR)  IF YOU DO YOU ASKING FOR  MORE TROUBLE !!!

Roger that on the fiber gear - hang it on the wall of your shop, as a reminder...

Jon B

The fiber timing gears are fairly plentiful (Ebay is a good source) but I second the motion on taking the time to find an aluminum replacement gear.  That will of course require a matched set (crank and camshaft gears) and the slight modification needed to make the cam gear fit.  But if you have the time to search around, it would be well worth your time -- especially if you intend to actually DRIVE this car to more than a local car meet or two.  I installed the aluminum cam gear on my '37 in 1978 and have never had another timing gear problem since.

Some NOS fiber timing gears are for sale right now on the AACA website (in the "Hudson" section):
http://forums.aaca.org/f166/41-51-hudson-timing-gears-362030.html

hudsonsplasher1

I would change over to aluminum gear like others have said. Also like Lee said, be sure to drop the pan and dipper tray to clean the chewed up fibers. Check the return troughs and holes that lead to the mains also.  I had the same thing happen to my 37 on the way to the 96 national in Detroit, changed to 20 degree matching aluminum gear and crank gear  and have been happy.

Gene.

farmermike

Gene,

I have not been able to track down an aluminum set of timing gears. I talked to Doug Wildrick and Dale Cooper after striking out everywhere else. They do not have any either. The consensus was that if I clean the return troughs and drop the pan to make sure I get all of the debris from the fiber gear cleaned up, I then need to make sure that the crank did not destroy the cam. Dale has the fiber gear as well as the seals and the gaskets I need.

If I have a giant mess then the aluminum gears (if I can find a set) will do me no good. If a new fiber gear will help me determine if I need to pull the motor and crate it up to be completely overhauled, or if everything is still intact, that is how I will attack this problem. It looks like the #2 rod may have hit the fuel pump drive lobe on the cam. I cannot find any marks on the cam but it looks like a small grove or dent is on the rod cap. It doesn't help that I just got this car running and have not had time to get to know the engine so this might be an old mark.

I did get an air driven suction hose to clean out the oil return troughs. I have debris in the dipper tray so will need to clean the troughs out as best as I can. Is there a way to blow air from below to clean out the galleys without tearing the mains down? Just wanting to make sure I get all of the debris cleaned out.

The sad part in all this is that the motor was running so well before she ate the fiber gear.

If you know of anyone that might have a set of aluminum gears, please let me know.

Thanks,

Mike

barrysweet52

Consider buying a complete 1946/47 motor if you can find one. Im surprised that no one has reproduced the gears. Barry

Frankvintagefullflowcom

There are no galleries, per se, to clean in that engine, being a full splash lube. The oil troughs in the crankcase wall (as evidenced by the "eyebrow" indentations on the outside of the block, passenger's side) are the gravity feed to the oiling holes atop each main. Any accumulated crud in the feed holes will restrict the flow and there's no way for it to "move on", so to speak, so you must clean them out. A nearly impossible task to accomplish without completely tearing it down and doing a proper cleaning job.
I'm curious.......how is it that you have "sucked out" the troughs but don't know if the cam is in pieces? What troughs were those? Not sure what you mean by "return trough".
F

farmermike

Frank,

I just bought the air suction hose late this afternoon while on a parts run for my field sprayer. I have only crawled under the car (it's on jack stands) and reached up with my fingers to feel if there was any debris. There is, so I did not do anything more until I could get a small extendable mirror and something to clean the troughs with. Doug W. had mentioned blowing them out with a blow gun but I wanted to see if I could "vacuum" them out instead. That way I might minimize the chance of blowing something into the feed holes. So far I have only found pieces of the fiber gear in the splash tray, timing cover, etc., nothing from a cam lobe or ???

I can see where calling them return troughs isn't the right term and was confusing.

Mike

Frankvintagefullflowcom

For that matter, "feed troughs" was just my own term for them and it just occurred to me that it's probably just as applicable to pig farming.
With all respect due the Doctor, I'd not recommend blowing them out since some of the debris so dislodged will just find a temporary "home" somewhere else and the risk of simply driving it further into the feed holes is real.

So, you can see that the cam is intact? If so, you're a lucky guy......luckier than my Dad was when it happened to him. It basically destroyed the engine in his '42 C-6 and that was in 1960.
However, you will need to inspect it and confirm that no "owies" remain after some collision. Removal of the cam in that engine is a lengthy process. Quite Frankly (a term I use often), if it comes to that, the engine should just come out and be thoroughly overhauled since there's nowhere to stop if you try anything less.
Just an opinion that I'm sure you didn't want to hear. Hang in there.
F

junkcarfann

I cleaned out the oil troughs on a splasher 175 a while back, and used this setup. First, I took a kitchen-sized funnel made of plastic that was about 4" or so at the widest part. I forced about 5 or 6 feet of clear plastic tubing of the about 1/2 inch or so size over the small end of the funnel.

Next, I started up the shopvac and its suction pulled the wide end of the funnel tight to the end of shopvac hose.

Finally, I crawled under the car, which was on high jack stands, with the pan off, and was able to easily maneuver the clear hose all around and over the troughs, and to the end of the valley of the troughs at their terminus hole over the main bearings.

I also cleaned out the lifter chambers the same way.

I could see any crud as it passed thru the clear hose.

Frankvintagefullflowcom

Paul's point is worth repeating that the thrust washer behind the cam front flange is very often worn or has disintegrated entirely, allowing the cam to shift rearward. This may cause interference between the cam lobes and the lifter guides since the lobes pass through the slot in the guides. This is bad. You should have found that washer (sometimes called the "catface" washer) behind the cam gear when you took the gear off. If not, it was already gone.
With a little modification, I replaced it with a roller thrust bearing in our '47.
Frank