1919-1923 Essex Engine and Transmission?

sixball

I have recently acquired what I think is a 1923 Essex engine and transmission. I am interested in building a vintage speedster around it if I can make it run. Although it is very complete and has been stored inside it will not turn over. It is missing the top plate for the carb, the glass tube for the oil level indicator, and the distributer cap and rotor. I would like to know if there is a source for parts and if there is a group that has interest in 1919 -1923 Essex four cylinders. Thanks!

Geoff

This is a 1919 or 1920 Essex, with the higher compression head than later models, and gear drive cam. There are quite a number of Essex 4 owners in the H.e.t. club, and I'm sure you will find help if you join the club.

sixball

Thank you. I have noticed that some engines have the spark plugs on opposite sides. I'm off to an Inliner International club meeting right now. Some of our members are involved with the National Car Museum in Reno. I'll pick their brains.

Jay_G

yes, I agree.  This looks to have the Delco generator which would make it pre-1922.  That and the spark plugs are on the wrong side.

 

Jay

sixball

Jay, Thank you. Yes, the distributer is Delco as are the starter and generator. Thanks to a good soaking of the cylinders with Marvel Mystery Oil I did get it to turn over. The emergency brake handle has been broken off along with a small piece of the top plate on the transmission. I also need 2 of the breathers on top of the rocker cover. My Inliners International friends were of no help except for teasing about dragging home more junk. They've been talking to my wife.

 This engine came from the Virginia Truckee Railroad. It was stored for years in the Gold Hill Depot but recently removed. Because of that and the odd bend in the shift lever I think it may have served as power on some type of rail vehicle. Here is the other side.

sixball

Here the other side.

hudsontech

If there is a number on the generator it would be Delco 161 for 1920-1922 Essex.  1919 Essex used number 5193.  1923-1925 used American-Bosch equipment.

Alex Burr
Memphis, TN

sixball

 Alex, Thank you. Here are the numbers I have found.

1. Starter: Stamped in case 161-4237 Patent dates 1916-1917 2. Generator: Stamped on case 1333567 patent dates 1912-1916 3. Distributer: Stamped in case D1 80 800 ID plate says DELCO Starting Lighting & Ignition System patent dates 1914-1918 4. Exhaust manifold cast A-50047 with a square G under it. 5. Cast into side of transmission F59-1 6. Cast on top left of crankcase/bell housing BH BF4-4 19 ( maybe a casting date like April 4, 1919) Under that a large B 7. Cast on top between back of block and bell housing 4 80009 8. Stamped on raised oval boss on left front mount leg of main casting 14 955 There is nothing on the carb. There was a top plate held with 4 screws that is missing and probably had all the info on it.

hudsontech

Generator number for 1920-1922 was 166 (Delco).   Distributor was 5295 same years. 
1919 Distributor was 5193 - Generator was 133 - which are the first 3 numbers that you have.  Interesting.  It could be that the entire number is as you have it - note the starter number has 161 which is what I have in my files, and then the 4237.  So maybe the generator number is 133-3567.
Only mystery number is the Distributor.

Hudsonly,
Alex B

sixball

Thanks Alex, You are a great help. I'll check the distributer again. Do you have part numbers for a cap and rotor? 

The only number I can find is D1 under that 30800. I had it wrong above. All stamped vertically on the right rear side below where the cap sits.

sixball

Generator

hudsontech

I don't have part numbers for the cap and rotor.

Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN

sixball

Thanks! I'll keep looking.

sixball

I have located an Essex frame. A friend has it but does know what year it is. I have not seen it yet I will take pictures. Is there any thing I should look for that will tell me that is an early frame. Were the '24 and later frames much different? 

Geoff

Yes, the six cylinder frames are completely different.  They have parallel members, with outrigger spring hangers at the rear. 

sixball

The frame I picked up has parallel rails 28" apart and wider rear spring mounts but not enough room from the front engine mount to the plate for a six cylinder engine. My engine couldn't use that plate but maybe the late fours mount differently?

Geoff

That is a Essex 6 cylinder chassis.  It still has the engine rear plate bolted in place.  Looking at the running board brackets I would think it to be about 1925 to 1926.

Geoff 

sixball

How long is an Essex six compared to a Four. If I bolt my front mounts to the front frame pads the rear mounts would be right where the engine plate bolts to the frame.

Geoff

 I doubt that you will fit the four cylinder engine  in  the frame you have.   The plate that is bolted into your frame is the rear engine plate for a 6 cylinder motor, and the front plate sits on the brackets behind the front cross member. 

sixball

Alex, Thanks I'll go over the distributer again and see if a number is hiding. I still need a cap.

Geoff, The width spacing on the front mounts is the same as those of the engine. From the hole on the front mount to the plate in the rear is 23 3/4". The mount holes on the engine front to back are 22 1/2". If I use the holes where the plate bolts to to bolt on two L brackets it will fit perfectly by moving the hole in the bracket 1 1/4" forward. I think I can make it work.

Something else I need is two of the oilers for the rockers, and one spring clip for the distributer cap.

Thanks, Tom

Geoff

Good luck!   You have a waaay to go yet!  Will be an interesting project.

sixball

I found a very nice cowl of the right vintage. I just set it on a Chevy frame to look at it with my radiator shell of the wrong year but it is looking like an Essex. Still looking for a hood and rocker oilers.

sixball

I found a distributer that has the things that are broken on mine. Small grains of sand make great beaches. ">

sixball

Sorry I just realized this whole thing is in the classified forum. My mistake.