New forum page???
Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN
Comments
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I just noticed one cannot edit their posts after they post it - at least there isn't any edit button that I can see. Confusing - of course at my age walking across the street is confusing!!!!
Ok, I see where the edit button went - have to click on Preview.
Hudsonly,
Alex B
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Actually Alex - You have one hour to edit. Move your cursor over your post (top right corner) and you will see something that looks like a gear - click on it, and you have the editing option (again - only for one (1) hour).0
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ok - we'll try that. Still a bit confusing tho.
Hudsonly,
Alex B
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Wow this happened just as I updated my Mac to the new operating system and I thought maybe my browser had somehow gone to a new type of page formatting. So it is a a new system after all.0
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Same system apparently, just the newest, updated version.0
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What happened to the insert pic box?0
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48Sed - 'FileUpload' does not work with this release of Vanilla... We will need to either wait for an update to this 'plug-in' that is compatible with this version of Vanilla, or find an alternative (and I will be looking).0
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Keep tinkering with it until it's broke!!!
Its a plot by the powers of darkness to get all to move to the H-E-T club web site!!!!
Hudsonly,
Alex B
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Why the change?0
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The site had to be updated or it would no longer have been supported. Basically, meaning it was too old and too prone to attack. It's the way with software, you have to keep your system updated.0
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I've always wondered why 'update' always seems to require 'redesign' when it comes to software.
Why can't they ever just fix the background stuff that needs to be fixed and leave rest the **** alone?
Chris
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I'm sorry but I don't understand how this is the worst forum design on the world wide web..........each version gets worse. Come on guys, there are millions of forums that look and work great.
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My "New" posting notifications seem to be inaccurate.
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Our dilemma: there really isn't a lot of money available for the website (hey, this IS the Hudson club, not the '57 Chevy club), so we have to be content with less. And I understand how hard Aaron is working (both for the HET website and as president of the whole darn club!). This is all volunteer work and the site operates on a relative shoestring. So I phrase my remarks in that context, with no criticism towards those who have worked so hard on this (and the other) Forum sites.
1. The layout of this forum page seems so "scattershot". There is just a bunch of type floating around the screen. It would really help us to have some dividing lines so things would...sort of..."fall into place". I have to agree with Chris and Terraplane 8: why can't the software developers stay with a familiar (and hopefully clean) page design, and do their "tweaking" behind the scenes? (Prime example: the list of categories moved from the right side to the left side. What on earth is the purpose of THAT?)
2. In what universe do people manage to do all their editing within an hour after posting the original message?
3. Why is it necessary to change the EDIT (and other) functions so that the menu is no longer visible, but one must wave one's cursor like a magic wand to invoke a "gear", which then opens an Edit or Delete menu?
4. How could the designers of this software update the forum program and then not have a photo-upload plug-in ready to work with the updated version?
Our hard-working web guys are constantly having to spend their valuable time searching for "fixes" to patch up the forum program. (It's a good thing we're all Hudsonites; we're used to searching for hard-to-find parts!) How much money would it cost to buy a professional Forum with its own attached Photo Album site, which would then relieve our "I-T" guys of all this work? For example, what would it cost to install the same Forum software used by the AACA? (Maybe we could sell Hudson-related advertising in the margins of the page, to help with the costs. Antique car insurance companies? Tire companies? Hudson parts suppliers?)
I think the HET website and forums have proven their worth and it's time that the Club ponied up some real money to purchase good software, advance the Club's web usefulness, and take the burden off our web guys!
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Actually Alex - You have one hour to edit. Move your cursor over your post (top right corner) and you will see something that looks like a gear - click on it, and you have the editing option (again - only for one (1) hour).
Alex, Jon & everyone - You actually have four (4) hours to edit your posts. Shortly after I posted the response, I 'tore apart' the forum dashboard, looking for the 'bump'. Took a while, but I found it.My apologies, I forgot to mention it earlier...
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Well, since my fellow moderator (Jon
spoke up, I will, as well. I can't say that I disagree with anything that Jon has stated, either. I belong to 5 forums and contribute regularly to all. This particular forum was my first and I joined nearly 10 years ago. It is by far, my favorite content-wise and contributor-wise.Additionally, I am VERY grateful to the fine fellows who put in their time voluntarily to keep the forum going. If I knew more about the IT side of it, I would be helping, as well.I suppose the best version of this forum was when it was tied in with classiccars.com and there was some advertising tied into the site. That was our last version, I believe. The advertising really wasn't a big factor in the quality of the content or the quality of the "look" of the pages.But let's face it, this website is supposed to be our "face" to the GP (General Public). The GP doesn't get our fine mag, the WTN, that's basically for club members. The GP can't be part of the official Hudson forum, as that is for club members. THIS forum is supposed to help us entice new or potentially new Hudson fans. And, in all honesty, I don't see how anyone could be impressed with a forum that looks like it's straight out of 1995.One of the forums I belong to is the Continental Mark II forum. There's approx. 1500 cars left (of the original 3000) and probably 250 members. Great forum to navigate through, very user-friendly, very upscale and a great representation of the marque it represents. And it's an extremely small membership. In stark contrast, this forum used to be the hottest, most used car forum on the net. We had more posts and more activity than the HAMB. Yet, we still entice new members (somehow), and we still represent one of the greatest marques in Detroit's history. But I'm not sure this representation is doing us any favors. I would be all for having a percentage of my club membership, or an additional fee to go to a real, honest-to-goodness quality representation of a forum that we would all be proud (and excited) in which to participate. If these other forums can do it (and they don't cost me anything), why can't we do it with this site??No PICTURES??? Give me a break . . .One other, very important point to make is that probably 90% of the GREAT, informative posts that have been made in years past, is not even available for reference. That alone makes one wonder what exactly is the point, if it's nothing more than a chat page.1 -
Another thing that has me scratching my head is the post that I made on Oct. 19th that is staying as the last post made. What's with that. How come it doesn't stay with the other Oct. 19th post I made.
Another thing I just noticed - I replied to the WTN News post telling the gentleman who to contact for a replacement WTN. While the header indicates my post there is there no indication, ie the yellow banner under comments that tells somebody a post has been made. And if the powers that be think that last is confusing - now you know why I started this post. This new format is very close to being a train wreck. The HET forum is much easier to use.
Sorry to be so negative guys, but I'm telling it the way I see it.
Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN
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I have a pretty thick skin. I always appreciate everyone's comments. There are a number of things looming on the horizon for the whole website. The Vanilla forum update was relatively minor compared to the move I will need to make on the hetclub.org site (new template, new joomla version, etc..). It runs on Joomla 2.5 which from what they are saying, support expires at the end of the year much like the Vanilla 2.0 is going to. I realize that most folks believe the answer always lies in spending more money, however for most web solutions, the money is not for software, but rather for technical development work. It is important as a club that we don't go deep into some software solution that changes require resources that cost money. I can see ourselves going deep into a paid solution only to find out that we don't have the money or the technical resources to support. I have been looking for three years for help and have only had one person step forward. If we had several administrator types that could understand how to configure the different applications it would be a lot easier to manage. For this reason I have avoided any customization to any of the coding in the website or forum. Customization = cost + complexity. For this forum, Rick has spent a lot of time in making sure that the out of the box extensions work and don't cause problems. Opinions about how they work are not really on the table. They are either on or off. Hopefully this explains some aspects ofthe site. I will say that if you are on this forum and are not a H-E-T Club member, then you are not contributing anything to supporting this site. We appreciate your participating and comments, but we also need your membership to help cover infrastructure costs of supporting this site. Questions around why the developer changed one function or another - there is probably a good reason. No developer spends time changing something unless there is a reason for their time. Just like Rick and I don't load new versions (painful) without good reason.Aaron0
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OLD FOLKS DON'T TAKE WELL TO CHANGE......LOL
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Bravo Tom!!!!0
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Don't suppose it matters much, but once signed in, I don't see a place to sign out
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Don't suppose it matters much, but once signed in, I don't see a place to sign out
Click on the little 'gear' just below your login 'handle' (upper left of screen). Logout should be the last item on the drop-down list. As with any change, just look around a bit and you'll find it.0 -
I think this might enlighten some about cost and such. I also am a member of the Studebaker Drivers Club and asked their web site guy about cost when conversing with Arron about this subject. The SDC site is one of the best I frequent.
Before reading that, I have one comment, why carry two sites? I understand what has been said before but the Stude club has gained a lot of members just by going to the actual club site and looking-asking questions.
Hi Kerry.Clark Novak, our SDC Forum
Administrator, forwarded your e-mail to me for a reply.You ask some good (and very
common) questions! Due to client privacy reasons I cannot give you
specific details of costs to the SDC, however, because my company (Cornerstone
Registration, Ltd.) manages the memberships for a number of different car and
motorcycle clubs and has developed web sites for a number of different clients,
I can give you an idea of what to expect.In general, there is no “flat
fee” of costs. Web development costs, web maintenance costs and web
hosting costs are specific to the client’s needs. Typically a Business
Requirements Document is developed by the client which specifies the desired functions
and features of the new web site. My company then reviews this document,
asks detailed questions, then puts together a Design Document and estimate of
cost. The process is analogous to building a home. You meet with an
architect who discusses your needs, likes and dislikes (possibly over many
visits), then the final plans are drawn up and given to a construction company
that then puts together an estimate of cost to build the home.Now, with that said, a typical
web site with dynamic content (slide shows, database-driven content, member
area, etc.) can cost in the range of $8,000 - $12,000 to develop. The
monthly maintenance costs would depend heavily on the amount of work a
webmaster would need to do on a monthly basis. If a web site was developed
properly to allow for easy expansion through the use of templates, libraries,
includes, etc. combined with automation provided through a back-end database,
the less monthly maintenance there will be and thus less cost. Typical
monthly maintenance fees are $300 - $600 per month. Web hosting (where
the site resides) can cost anywhere from $50 - $100 per month.I will caution you about web
sites that offer to quickly develop your web site for you. (e.g. “We can
have you up and running in a couple of days!”) The old adage of “you get
what you pay for” rings true for web development. I know of a few
acquaintances that used these quick web development services and were sorely
disappointed. Yes, admittedly, I am biased, but a company like
Cornerstone Registration, Ltd. (or similar service) will take the time to
listen to your needs and develop a web site specific to YOU. Not some
cookie-cutter, one-site-fits-all web site.I hope that helps!
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Mark R. Wheeler,
PresidentCornerstone
Registration, Ltd.Phone:
763-420-7829Fax:
763-420-7849
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Rick, can you take a look at why when someone flags a post, it moves it up in the list? That is what is happening with Alex's posts. When you click on the up/down arrow for the post flag, it groups it with other posts that have been flagged.
Kerry, thanks for the information. I will point out that other than our hosting costs ($80-90 a month) for the entire site - hetclub.org, openforum.hetclub.org, oldopenforum.hetclub.org, my two test sites, and some other content, we have only spent about $200 on the entire site due to all low cost or free software. That $8000-12,000 in costs usually can be broken down to $50/hour or more development resource. So it looks like they estimate that it takes a minimum of 160 hours to set up. From my experience, that is low.
Russ - I did check on the Contenental Mark II forum. It uses vbulletin (vbulletin.com), which I had looked at, it costs about $250 for the initial software. That does not include all the work to get it loaded and maintained. It looks ok, but there are some clues that they are using some older technology, but I didn't look too far into it. You also don't know if they are setting on an old version because they cant afford to update. All the Hudson sites are running on the most current and most secure version.
Again, the H-E-T Club operates on thin margins, with the priority being Club activities and production of the White Triangle News. I don't see that paying more money for other software that requires even more time and effort to support really helps.
I am open to consolidating the two forums. At some point and time we may ask folks to move to the H-E-T Club site forum. Just a reminder, we do allow non-club members to register and participate, however they are required to provide full name, address, phone and email when they register.
We keep this forum to allow anyone to participate in the discussion. We (Rick, Jon B., John F and I) think there is value in this capability. If it becomes apparent that we really don't need both, I think we can archive the comments and keep them around like the old forum. If you don't think we need this forum, and want to move to hetclub.org, just vote by moving over there and posting there instead of here. We definitely wont just remove this forum. If we do migrate we will publicize it long before we actually do move over.
For the next couple of months, I am more focused on moving the hetclub.org to Joomla 3.3. Not even sure how many hours are involved but we have to keep moving onwards and upwards.
Aaron
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Kerry, my understanding of the reason for two sites (as Aaron has suggested above) is:
1. To preserve the "legacy discussions" which are often very helpful, which number over 21,000, and which go back maybe ten years. These are done in the "Vanilla" software and it's hard to copy them into another type of software. In other words, because you cannot afford an MP3 or CD player, you are forced to listen to your favorite old records on that 1951 RCA Victor phonograph that Aunt Hortense willed to you (God rest her soul!). But you have to keep replacing the vacuum tubes and needles, and they're getting harder to find.
2. To have an easily-accessible, simple "public" forum which outsiders (not necessarily Hudson club members) can easily join and participate in. Here, we use nicknames. At the H-E-T Forum we use our real name and don't have to worry about potential "wrong people" looking over our shoulders. If we consolidated the two forums there, then we will necessarily have to "wall out" a lot of Hudson enthusiasts who are "put off" by the level of difficulty in joining that forum -- the same level that keeps that forum somewhat "private".
I could be wrong about this, but If my assumption is correct, that this rather-imperfect (to say the least!) forum software we've inherited, is necessary in order to preserve the old discussions, we are in a "fix". Aaron and Rick will have to keep replacing vacuum tubes and resistors and needles forever, and they really have bigger fish to fry. (Wo! watch that metaphor, Jon!)
If we're willing to jettison the 21,000 old discussions, we MIGHT be able to find a nice, cheap and simple software for the Open Forum that would serve a very basic need and wouldn't cost much. Not a lot of bells and whistles. A sort of "Susie Homemaker" ("Just like Daddy's!") thing that we can wind up and then forget, freeing our web guys up for more important tasks.
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Aaron & Alex,
That is because Alex somehow selected 'sort by Vote' instead of the default 'sort by date'. Look just below the first post in this thread (See Comments), and you will see that 'selection'...
I won't go into the other aspects (two forums vs. one; internal 'HET Club Forum' vs. 'Open Forum', etc..).
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Ah, I see it now. That is a little confusing. Thanks0
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