Radial vs. bias tires on 1930's Hudsons?

Jon B

It's time for new tires on my '37 Terraplane.  For "looks" I'd prefer to stick with the 6.50x16 bias plys I've been using, which had a somewhat better ride than the original 6.00 x 16's.  But I've heard wondrous things about the handling properties of radials and since I do a fair amount of "distance" driving I thought I'd consider them.

Yes, this has been a topic of discussion in the past.  Just wondering if there's any new input on this subject.

Are radials significantly better for pre-War cars with solid front axles and leaf springs?  Do the cars handle better with radials than with bias-ply?  Are they much harder to  turn when parking?  Is the life of a radial (of this size) much longer than that of a comparable bias-ply tire?

If radials are preferable, will the old 6.00 x 16 rim work?  If not, is there an easily obtainable rim, Hudson or otherwise?

Who are the recommended manufacturers?  I've heard Diamondback and Coker, in the past.

Does anyone offer a decent sized whitewall in a radial?

I'd appreciate some thoughts!

parkerm

Jon,

I don't purport to know much about this, but I had a conversation with Hudson Dave (on this forum) about this for my 1940. Dave had suggested to me that I could get a better tire (radial) if I changed to a 15" wheel. His reasoning is that with a 15 inch wheel there is more rubber on the road surface because one can get a wider tire. I looked (not very hard) for 15 inch wheels at Dave's suggestion from the later 40's cars 47-49, but did not find any. Dave told me that the Chrysler products of that era had the same bolt pattern and he said my wheel covers would still fit. Dave has the Diamond Back and other brands.

Talk with Hudson Dave and get his opinion.

Regards,

Marvin

Trevor J

Jon.

I am using a 16inch radial on my 37 Terraplane coupe They are great.  It rides better, steers better a little heavier to park but not so that it is a nuisance.  I have not even had to put a tube in them.  I am changing to a radial on all my 30s cars as the need arises.

Trevor

 NewZealand

keithfullmeryahoocom

I changed to a set of the DBs with the 3" WWs on my '36, Jon.   I was tubeless, and like Trevor sez, it was night and day, when it came to drivability.  Don't know about all the brands but I believe tubeless, radials is the way to go...k

Jon B

Trevor and Keith, were you able to use the existing wheels on your car?  I've heard that they're not wide enough for radials.

Also I'm curious: have you noticed that the tread is lasting any longer than in the bias ply tires?

Browniepetersen

Jon, You might look at the Coker Classic tire that is a SBR tire that looks like a bias ply tire.  I just picked up a set for my 54 and I sure like the looks and added performance.

Trevor J

Yep I used the same wheel. Absolutely no problems.

I have probably done 5000 miles on them showing next to no wear

Trevor 

keithfullmeryahoocom

Same old stock wheels here, too.  I sold the T-plane before there was any noticeable tread wear.  Only had 4-5k on the tires...k

Frankvintagefullflowcom

I'm a fan of the Goodyear Radial Wide Whites and have them on our Hornet and '47 C-6. Kelsey Tire has supplied them both. Spendy? Sure. But I don't expect to have a need for tires again in my lifetime. My only squawk is the little rectangular, rubber, "Inspected by Bla Bla" sticker on the inside. If you need to run a radial tube (I couldn't get all rims to seal at the rivets) that thing will rub a hole in the thin radial tube and give you a nearly instant flat. Peel that thing out of there if you use tubes. I thought the first time was a fluke.......the second time convinced me that it wasn't.

Do this test: Before changing tires, hand push the car on flat ground and note the rolling resistance. After installing the radials, do the same, in the same place. The difference is remarkable. Who cares if they aren't "correct"?

F

Jon B

Frank, approximately how many miles have you put on your '47 since installing the radials?  Were they installed on the original wheel?

46HudsonPU

Here's Coker Tire's website - https://www.cokertire.com

And Diamondback's - http://www.dbtires.com

IMO, go with the radials - and stay with your rims.  Call Diamondback, ask them about the conversion (to radials), and what tires will 'fit the bill' for your 6.50x16 tires. IMO, unless a person is going the AACA competition route, radials are 'it'.  I am unfamiliar with AACA requirements for tires (?) - so cannot respond to that.  However Jon, I don't think that is a consideration for you anyway.
I'd probably go with the 215/85R16 WWW tires from Diamondback (P.24 of their online catalog) - Don't think the 75 series would look right...  (and, they are all tubeless.  Talk to the rep, they are very knowledgeable).

-------------------------------------

I'm sure that you are very familiar with the road handling and feel of bias-ply tires, and that you've driven many miles with radials as well.  With radials on your car, there will be positives and negatives -

Vehicle response/handling will change (improve?);

There will probably be a more direct, positive feel of the road;

Depending on shocks, springs and suspension - You may experience a rougher ride (i.e., you'll have more of a 'feel' for the road);

Depending on the tire's footprint, steering at very low speeds (or while not moving) may well be more difficult.  This should not affect the car at normal speed - in fact (if in correct/proper alignment), steering/control should improve significantly;

RL Chilton

WOW . . . I must be the dinosaur in the group.  And I'm not the oldest by far on this forum.  I don't know about the steering geometry of 30's cars (yet).  Wish I did.  But as far as Step Downs are concerned, I'll never have another radial tire without power steering.  I love bias ply tires.  It's even more like stepping back in time.  But I grew up on bias tires, older cars.  Guess it's just what you get used to.  

Geoff

Amen to that!

Frankvintagefullflowcom

Jon,

I had the original rims powdercoated and used them on the '47. I had surmised that the powdercoat would seal any potential leaks in the rivets which has, so far, been the case. It's pretty tough stuff. I did that on the Jet as well with no trouble...yet.

The '47 has about 3000 miles on it, but I must admit to having little experience with the bias ply tyres (that was for Geoff) that were on it. I do recall that it recognized the road much better after installing the radials. It was disturbingly wishy-washy as to where it should be, prior.

To be fair, it isn't a scientific comparison since there can be a pile of factors that enter into how it behaved before and after. All I know is that I'm pleased with the result and one can't deny the advantages of lowered rolling resistance. Better fuel mileage (assumed), lower heat build-up, longer tread-wear, longer plug and point life, faster acceleration, higher top speed, colder beer, tastier food......the list goes on.

Frank

StillOutThere

Another vote FOR radials.   

AND a suggestion to add caster shims.   I found some for 1 3/4" wide leaf springs from ESPO Springs 'n Things.    Also called pinion angle shims and used in rear.   They have them one degree, two degrees and four degrees.    The more positive caster the more a car wishes to stay pointed in a straight line.   I'm installing 4 degree shims.

RL Chilton

I wasn't voting FOR Bias Plies, simply stating MY preference.  Radials are by far, superior.  Just not my preference.  

bob ward

Caster shims are a good thought Wayne, could be useful for a beam axle car. Please let's know what you think after you have installed them.

terraplane8

Another vote FOR radials.   

AND a suggestion to add caster shims.   I found some for 1 3/4" wide leaf springs from ESPO Springs 'n Things.    Also called pinion angle shims and used in rear.   They have them one degree, two degrees and four degrees.    The more positive caster the more a car wishes to stay pointed in a straight line.   I'm installing 4 degree shims.

I had some axle wedges on my ET8, but removed them as they made the steering harder without making the car go in a straight line noticeably better. These were the Railton Club ones, not sure how many degrees they are.

RichardD

Caster on front of stepdown: Walt and others have recommended adding more caster with radials and power steering.
Normal setting is 1/2-1.5 degrees positive caster.
Does more mean stay at top of range  {1.5 degrees} or go to 2.0 or so??
Think I am correct on all this.
I am scheduling an alignment in a week or so.

{edit: sorry, just saw this was about '30s.}

Lee ODell

RichardD
Because the camber constantly changes as the caster is adjusted toward 1.5 degrees positive it is not always possible to achieve 1.5 degrees caster and still maintain acceptable camber. Let the mechanic made the best possible setting for both camber and caster for best handling and tire wear. When I had my alignment shop there were some cars that could not even be adjust to one degree positive caster. Every car is a little bit different that is why there is the 1/2 to 1.5 degree range. I would be surprised If you could get 2 degrees positive caster. Be happy if you can get 1.5 degree positive caster. The adjustment range is very limited. Not like later model cars that started using shims or larger castes/camber cams.
Lee O'Dell

RichardD

tks, Lee; good info; still waiting to hear from ADDCO. Will let you know how much they can do on caster.

Geoff

Lee, this only applies to 1940 and up. Earlier models with  beam axles, adjusting caster has no effect on camber. And you only fit caster shims under the  springs on ''35 and earlier models.  On '36-'39 models the shims go between the radius rod ends and the  axle cradle.

Lee ODell

Geoff
You are correct. Exactly how I made adjustments on earlier models. I should have made it clear I was responding to Richards post about his stepdown alignment and not to pre 1940 models.
Thanks for the clarification.
Lee O'Dell