Stepdown PCV Valve Conversion?

hudsonguy

I'd like to add a PCV to my '49 262 Twin H engine. I've looked and looked and have either discovered broken links, or no more than the mention of doing this procedure. No actual details have been uncovered.

Does anyone have a somewhat concise explanation of how to do this to a Hudson engine?

Thanks for the help.

Ol racer

Ive had PCV valves on all my Hudson's for yrs. I removed the Draft Tube then inserted a Chevy V8 PCV Valve into the valve cover using a Gromet obtained at a Swap Meet (from a Chevy Valve Cover). I ran a 5/16 or 3/8" vacume hose into an Intake 1/8" Port. I instaled a MOPAR Breather Cap (Type with a Nipple) into the Oil fill Tube, I used another gromet to seal the tube below the cap.Then I ran a 5/8" hose up to an Air Cleaner. There are couple methods to attach to air Filter. One is drill a hole under the Filter Base to insert hose, and another is go to the Auto Store 'HELP Rack' to find a Nylon Nipple that attaches to the air filter screen. This completes the cycle to re burn the oil fumes which all cars utilize today fort rffficrency... I found I needed to adjust the idle screws slightly after installation.....Ive never had to replace the PCV Valve......Pretty simple quick conversion that has a lot of long term benifits..

hudsonguy

Thanks, Ol racer, that's just what I needed!

hudsonguy

duncan

Does the vapor and fumes lubricate the valves and guide. If you suck that out

what lubricates the valve train.  Ray

Frankvintagefullflowcom

Correctly designed and installed, a PCV system should not be inhaling oil. I'm using PCV on two of our three Hudsons (adding it to the third as we speak) and there has never been any indication of oil in the valve or any lines. Inspection of the inlet port (at the intake manifold) shows no oil present. My call is that it's not an issue.

Frank

JasonNC

Frank and Ol Racer. how about posting some pictures of how it looks on your engine.  I'm one of those guys who can only figure out how something works by looking at pictures.  

duncan

Old Racer  I read your post and am going to install this after I have our car back home..One part of your instructions I do not understand  It said to install mopar breather cap into filler tube 

Why to install another grommet to seal the tube below the cap.

Ol racer

Duncan,
The Mopar Cap I used didnt fit the Hudson oil fill Tube very well, 'It was loose' so I cut a hose to insert into the tube as a 'bushing' then inserted the cap. The hose bushing cant slide down into the pan because narrows at the bottom. Bushing usually stays right on the oil cap.
 You can utilize any Cap that has a Nipple on it to connect the hose over to the air filter.I feel if Hudson was in Business today, they woiuld have a PCV System too because of all the Benefits
. Additionally, if a worn motor that will need guides eventually and blows fumes out of the Draft tube, a PCV eliminates the vapor by putting it back thru the motor.Im that case you need to put a hole 'under' an Air Filter cannister and not against the Filter because it will eventually oil wet the air filter....I loi,ke it......

duncan

Thanks  Ray

duncan

Would it matter which twin h air cleaner to use.  Front or back   Ray

Ol racer

Ray,
Not really. however, Twin H Air Filter Cannisters are valuable so I would not want to drill a hole in them. I would go to an Auto Store and get a 'nylon Nipple' for the hose to fasten to the mesh of the filter with a zip tye or twisty. The hose just has to be in the air intake stream somewhere to complete the cycle

 Our local Store (Auto Value) has a rotating Stand named HELP that has an assortment of many unique but necessary Car Items (Nipples, Gromets, Clips, handles, etc).

(If) you have a paper filter and the motor is puffing a little, over time the fumes may stain the paper, however if mesh filter wont be noticable.

Frankvintagefullflowcom

Although not quite on the same sheet of music as the pressure lubed sixes, here are a few shots of the PCV set-up on our 212 "Splasher". This mod is somewhat more involved as one must take measures to prevent air inhalation from the several points that are less-than easy to deal with, the rear main bearing slinger cavity being the most work. The oil filler/dipstick neck is extended by 1-1/2" to provide a connection point for the crankcase air inlet and the dipstick is extended accordingly. That nipple is for a hose that runs to a filtered inlet mounted on the fire-wall. The rear main issue is handled by addition of a (dare I say it?) Chevrolet rear main seal since the splashers have no seal at all. Note the O-ring on the modified dipstick body. The original dipstick isn't well sealed.

The sole air inlet on the pre-48 splashers is that little factory "dent" on the timing gear cover, which I have plugged to prevent inhalation of dirty air at that point. basically, the idea is to seal up the entire crankcase so that only filtered air may enter.

I haven't located the photos of the 202 PCV yet, but I'll stumble upon them eventually if anyone care to see them. 

Lee ODell

Frank
Very nice system. Do you make the rear main seal for sale? Cost?
Lee O'Dell

Frankvintagefullflowcom

Lee,

As much as I'd like to offer them, it would be impossible for me to do it at a realistic price. Additionally, the crank must be modified to accommodate the seal, as shown in the pic below, so it's not at all practical to do the mod except during a complete overhaul where you are having the crank reground anyway. The slinger area behind the #3 main must be welded and reground to do it. The crank on the right is stock whereas the left one has had the groove between the slinger and flywheel flange welded and machined/ground for the Chev two-piece lip type seal.

The first photo shows the PCV valve and related plumbing on the 202 Jet/Wasp engine. As one can see, I'm a fan of mounting the valve in the upright position although some say it's not necessary. I believe that gravity plays a big part in the correct behavior of the valve. The crankcase fresh-air inlet on this installation is a breather cap of the type that Racer described with an O-ring added as a seal at the end of the filler neck to dis-allow entry of unfiltered air past that sloppy cap/tube fit. Instead of adding a hole and nipple to the carb air filter, I just fitted a little K&N breather filter directly onto the cap nipple. I'll probably do the same thing on our Hornet when I get to that job as I'm not desirous of hacking a hole in either of my air filter housings.  With luck (lots of it) we'll be driving it to Colorado. 

Back to work.........

F

Geoff

Frank, you are a very talented engineer.  I just wonder about the benefits of all this?   What do you consider the  advantage of having a PCV in place of the vented to atmosphere of the original set-up?

Geoff 

Ol racer

Frank,

 I applaud your engineering regardingv the Splasher PCV installation and the modern neopreme rear seal. Your efforts may greatly extend the life of the motor.

Lee ODell

Frank
Thanks for explaining more about what is involved modifying for Chevy rear main seal. You are very talented machinist.
Lee O'Dell

Frankvintagefullflowcom

Ol,

Thanks for the nice comments. I suspect I've extended the life of the engine to well beyond the point where I'll ever know about it. There are numerous other mods in this particular engine as well. It's kind of a "test bed" for my crazy ideas. Roller cam thrust, double-row,ball-bearing water pump, bronze, thin-wall valve guide liners, and Mr. Clark's favorite......insert type rod bearings.

Geoff, The intent of the PCV system is to scour the gasses (to include water vapor, of course)  from the crankcase to minimize the formation of sludge and extend the life of the oil.....and the engine,basically what any PCV system is meant to accomplish (disregarding the environmental aspect of it). It's my opinion that a combination of effective crankcase ventilation and oil filtration can do nothing but good. The original, passive ventilation methods on the pre-stepdown splashers are pretty much useless IMO, since they are comprised of nice big bologna-sliced road pipes for an exit point but virtually no source for inlet air. Post 47 eights at least have a mesh "filter" at the filler neck breather cap, but prior to that, the only inlet was the little factory dent at the timing cover top which served, at best, to direct a small flow of dirty air directly onto the cam gear until it plugged with oily dust (dusty oil?). I may be full-of-it but without some attempts to improve the Hudson design, we'll never know if they're good ideas or not. Not to bash Hudson's engineers, but it's no news that they had only the technology of the day to work with and there was a very different attitude about how important such considerations were, and a great deal of engineering momentum in some directions.....not always forward. Economics drove much of the resistance to changes that weren't considered critical until the competitors made more sales with their improvements.

Besides.....I just enjoy doing that kind of stuff.           Did I just hear snoring?.....hello?

Geoff

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!

Geoff

Just joking!  I wish I had your equipment and time, to do such things.  Perhaps if people stopped bringing  their Hudsons for me to  repair I could indulge a little more. I stick to how they were built.

Frankvintagefullflowcom

Geoff,

Ah! Therein lies the difference.....I don't let anyone bring me their Hudsons. I have my hands more than full with the ones I have. Besides, I can't afford to work on others. I'm trying to maintain "hobby" status with the obvious exception of the Vintage Full Flow products. (I had to get a plug in there somewhere)

Frank

GrimGreaser

Beware doing the PCV setup on a engine with alot of blowby. Did that to mine because it blew smoke out of the draft tube, but it coked up the intakes valves pretty bad after a bit.

Frankvintagefullflowcom

Ditto that. I guess I just assume (you know what that means) that one is doing the mod on a healthy or fresh engine to begin with. PCV shouldn't be employed as an attempt to deal with excessive blow-by. It's too late for those.

F

Kdancy

http://mewagner.com/
http://mewagner.com/?page_id=598
Been looking-reading for several days trying to find info for figuring which would be the correct pcv valve for the engine I just built when I ran across the ME Wagner adjustable pcv valve.

Frankvintagefullflowcom

In my "research" I found that a given part number applied to a very wide range of engines with widely differing displacements, implying that it isn't at all critical, so, I chose the one with the configuration that best matched my plumbing arrangement.  

F

Kdancy

http://www.motor.com/article.asp?article_ID=2085
I started out thinking it was going to be a simple thing, use a valve from a similar ci engine, but discovered it wasn't so simple. For example, Ford has multiple pcv valves for the same engine with different mileage.
In one article, when a serious test was done on different brands of the same part number and application, test numbers were all over the place. Seems the aftermarket uses the same inside orifice size for many different
external sizes. The more I read, the more "not simple" I found it to be.
Glad I found the "adjustable" one, adjusted by using a vacuum gauge and allen wrench.
I'm calling them today.

Frankvintagefullflowcom

Makes me look like a "slacker" doesn't it? I suspect a lot of marketing since the common versions seem to work well but, since I'm about to add PCV to the Hornet, I may invest in the Wagner unit as an experiment, if nothing else. Being adjustable, I can switch it to the other cars and tweak it to match to see if there's any noticeable change.

F