Step-down remote brake reservoir with GM master conversion and disc brakes

ivanz62

Looking for a picture of a nice way to use a firewall mounted fluid reservoir with the GM tandem master cylinder used on the Pridemore and Faust front disc conversion.  Yeah, I want to be able to see without putting the car on a lift.

RichardD

Good looking master !!! Mine is a stock master buts works very good on my disks. Here is the remote I installed. Another thing with the remote mount location is that you can remove the 2 psi pressure regulator. I just did that. No bleed back since the fluid level is above the calipers. Remote is Wilwood #WIL260-10500; $33. at Jegs.

I used a steel cap and brazed up the vent holes before tapping.

Frankvintagefullflowcom

Ivan,

At the risk of sounding like "what you shoulda done", there are GM type master cyls that are hydraulically identical but are made for remote mounted reservoirs. Obviously, that means breaking into the hydraulic system to change it out.  It might eliminate that park brake cable interference as well.....maybe not, but I have relocated that cable housing terminus about an inch inboard, allowing the cable to clear the master cyl without rubbing on it.

http://www.ecihotrodbrakes.com/remote_fill_master_cylinder.html  

This might not fit your situation, it's just an example.

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Kdancy

Frank-
250.00 for the manual mc with remote fill ?

Frankvintagefullflowcom

I wasn't necessarily promoting their products, but simply offering that as an example of what may be available. 

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50C8DAN

Wasn't there someone on the forum making the remote resorvoir for Hudsons a few years ago?

Glowplug

Eliott Lopez Sanchez, Shreveport, La. cast them in the past.

Frankvintagefullflowcom

I did a split/tandem mod with remote reservoir on our Jet using a modified Chrysler M/C. I'm sure I put <$100 into that part using a new M/C from NAPA. Of course, it took $300 worth of machine/fabrication work to do it.

The res. is up on the firewall where it belongs.

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kamzack

Got from Mr. Sanchez few years back. Comes with tapped cap, fitting, pre bent brake line, cast aluminum reservoir. Easy install and looks good after few hours on a buff.

Frankvintagefullflowcom

Ivan's original question was regarding a remote fill reservoir for a dual master cylinder. Although the remote conversion for a single is still a great idea, it won't fill the order for his situation.

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RichardD

Couldn't you put a Tee in the line and braze twice into the dual Master and resolve if nothing else would be as attractive?

Frankvintagefullflowcom

If you go back and look at Ivan's photo, you'll see that he has the typical firewall-mount (or booster-mount) type of dual M/C with the large cover held in place with a bail. This type of cylinder would be difficult to convert to remote fill which was why I mentioned the ECI alternative. It is a new Cyl. for the split/tandem system that is made specifically for use with a remote reservoir. I don't imagine he'd care to tear his set-up apart to make the change but that's probably what should be done if one really wants a remote reservoir for a split/tandem, underfloor M/C installation. Just my two bits worth.

The Modified Chrysler cylinder shown in my photo is hardly a "bolt-in" change-over, but serves the same purpose if one has the time and resources to do it.

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JasonNC

Frank,

I already have disc brakes on my Hudson, but your setup looks like it would fit well on my Kaiser.  Do you have the specs for the brackets that attach the MC to the body?  If Matt's disc and caliper setup will fit my Kaiser (Kaisers and Hudsons appear to use the same wheel bearings and have the same bolt pattern so that may be the case), I may try to use his product to put disc brakes on the Kaiser.  

Frankvintagefullflowcom

Jason,

The bracketry is a one-off, custom made arrangement so I don't have drawings to reproduce it. One would need to "engineer" it as needed for whatever the application is, Hudson, Kaiser or what have you. I can scare up additional photos for ideas if you like.

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JasonNC

I understand Frank.  I have the same situation on my high speed starter on the Hudson.  Any pictures will be greatly appreciated.  

JasonNC

I did a split/tandem mod with remote reservoir on our Jet using a modified Chrysler M/C. I'm sure I put <$100 into that part using a new M/C from NAPA. Of course, it took $300 worth of machine/fabrication work to do it.

The res. is up on the firewall where it belongs.

F

Frank what year Chrysler does this M/C fit?

Frankvintagefullflowcom

It's a NMC (NAPA Master Cylinder) M-2534 for the Chrysler Town and Country (amongst many other Chry Products). It has been machined to fit into a custom made thrust bracket at its closed end, has the mounting ear removed to allow it to mount closely to the frame (on the same center line as the original MC) and has a special bracket on the open end to hold that in place.

The attached photo is of the cyl before removing the reservoir, which is then firewall mounted. The original grommets for reservoir mounting are then used to seal the custom made fittings shown in the earlier photo.

Bore dia. is 24 MM (.946 in.) which is slightly smaller than the Hudson MC but has no discernible effect on braking. If anything, it would slightly lessen pedal effort for a given system pressure and slightly increase. proportionately, the pedal travel.

Outlet ports are both 3/8-24, same as the original 3/16 tubing fittings used on the later Hudsons.

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JasonNC

Wow.  That's impressive...

Frankvintagefullflowcom

Thanks.

Slight correction: NMC means "New Master Cylinder" to differentiate it from their rebuilt units which do not include reservoir and actually cost more. This one was selected on the basis of: Bore size, removable reservoir, split/tandem design, outlet port size and location (some candidates had ports on the bottom......dangerous!), and, lastly, price @ <$60.

I had more photos but they are on the disk that disappeared a while back.

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Frankvintagefullflowcom

Jason,

I found the disc and have a few more photos.

016) Closed end turned to locate cylinder in thrust bracket. Mfgr. was nice enough to provide center-drilled casting for me. The closed end is about 3/4 in. thick at this point so there's no concern about strength.

020) Open-end mounting bracket. Note that original ear is cut off of frame side, allowing cyl. to mount on original centerline. Protrusion on bracket fitzinta the counterbore on the cyl. face, making the bracket thin enough to allow room for dust boot to fit where it belongs.

035) Closed-end bracket has a "spud" on the frame side that keys it into the frame using an existing factory hole. That spud is drilled/tapped for a bolt that comes through from the opposite side of the frame. This is to transfer all thrust forces to the frame without relying on friction as would be a simple bolted connection.

Open-end bracket is welded to its frame-mounting piece that is subsequently attached to the frame via through bolts to the other side of said frame. These holes are not "existing" and must be provided by the installer. Boot isn't shown in any views here.   

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JasonNC

Thanks Frank, but when I finally got under the car to see how the master cylinder attached to the frame, I found out it attaches to the frame from the right side.  I need a comparable modern master cylinder that ports from the left side. (Any suggestions? ) The other problem is finding a disc brake kit for a Kaiser.  I thought that Hudson and Kaiser used the same spindle design but there are major differences between the two.  I called the guy at American Brake and Steering and he said they usually have to custom make the kit, which requires me to send them my spindle.  Not ready to go through those hassles right now.